Langtrres VIP Perth 4
Silver Member
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Come through the right way....and wait like everyone else has to.......Isn't NZ Part of the Commonwealth...The Kiwis come an go as they please dont hey?
How do we stop illegal immigration?
- Thread starter Smoggy
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sparky
Legend Member
- Points
- 46
So its not really a matter of being full then is it ?
C
Contrarian
Cayla, how did you come to the conclusion that "we are full"? Do tell. By being in a detention centre, they're waiting in a queue. You're quite an admirer of Tony Abbot and the Liberal Party so time will tell if they will heed your advice.
BigMike
Gold Member
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- 0
From: http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/07/06/boat-people-this-is-what-you-are-anxious-about/
Perhaps it's a little unfair to include all Australians, not just new ones. So here's a more accurate graphic.
Perhaps it's a little unfair to include all Australians, not just new ones. So here's a more accurate graphic.
F
Farm Boy
There you have it six Little Green Men queued up and eventual got in. The off colour brown orange last one swaned up in a boat got his papers wet and no one has a clue who he is .
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I don't think there is ever going to be away to stop it for sure. But i guess the biggest question is...if you are required to pay the people smuggler to get on the boat to get over...where does that money come from especially if you have been forced to leave your home and belongings due to war or political unrest? makes me think are these refugees genuine or not?
C
Contrarian
Firstly, there's no guidebook on how to become a refugee - people have been known to sell EVERYTHING including take loans in the hope of a new life. And then send their families and stay behind to eke out a living. Similarly, I've known women here in Australia who leave with NOTHING but the clothes they have on themselves because they can't stand the domestic violence anymore. As is often said, "It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees".
Secondly, why do people presume that refugees have to be poor? Of course the vast majority have nothing but does that mean people who make meagre livings like to suffer torture, war and political unrest. I know a guy who works at a tv station in the eastern states - Vietnamese. He can barely remember his dad putting him on a boat entrusting him to a close friend who was leaving. He remembers bawling his eyes out and coming to Australia via a disastrous boat trip.
It was all of 12 years before he was able to earn enough money and safely make that trip back to Vietnam to see his father and pay his respects to his mother's grave.
Have a read of Anh Do's "The Happiest Refugee". It's a great and mostly funny read but in places it'll make you cry as well. I remember speaking to a Bosnian once who was amazed that people don't bother to vote in Australia (can't blame them but that's another issue) - he recounted back in Bosnia, people were shot and died in their protests to have a right to vote.
People also seem to think that refugees just come to Australia and live happily ever after. They don't. Language barriers are huge and Australians aren't the most tolerant in the workplace when it comes to dealing with a person who can't speak English well. I know a Serbian lad who shares a flat with his brother. He has lived in 19 refugee camps in his life before coming to Australia. His mother had been raped and committed suicide. He came over with his dad who has now succumbed to the bottle in a big way so he and his brother had to make that painful decision to move out and share a flat. His one joy is on Saturday evenings when he joins his soccer team to play and get thrashed soundly but it's still a better life to him.
And I still have a very deep suspicion that if circumstances were different and these refugees were white from traditionally Anglo-Saxon countries like Ireland or England, everybody would be a lot more sympathetic.
Secondly, why do people presume that refugees have to be poor? Of course the vast majority have nothing but does that mean people who make meagre livings like to suffer torture, war and political unrest. I know a guy who works at a tv station in the eastern states - Vietnamese. He can barely remember his dad putting him on a boat entrusting him to a close friend who was leaving. He remembers bawling his eyes out and coming to Australia via a disastrous boat trip.
It was all of 12 years before he was able to earn enough money and safely make that trip back to Vietnam to see his father and pay his respects to his mother's grave.
Have a read of Anh Do's "The Happiest Refugee". It's a great and mostly funny read but in places it'll make you cry as well. I remember speaking to a Bosnian once who was amazed that people don't bother to vote in Australia (can't blame them but that's another issue) - he recounted back in Bosnia, people were shot and died in their protests to have a right to vote.
People also seem to think that refugees just come to Australia and live happily ever after. They don't. Language barriers are huge and Australians aren't the most tolerant in the workplace when it comes to dealing with a person who can't speak English well. I know a Serbian lad who shares a flat with his brother. He has lived in 19 refugee camps in his life before coming to Australia. His mother had been raped and committed suicide. He came over with his dad who has now succumbed to the bottle in a big way so he and his brother had to make that painful decision to move out and share a flat. His one joy is on Saturday evenings when he joins his soccer team to play and get thrashed soundly but it's still a better life to him.
And I still have a very deep suspicion that if circumstances were different and these refugees were white from traditionally Anglo-Saxon countries like Ireland or England, everybody would be a lot more sympathetic.
Demon
Legend Member
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You are correct. Most illegal immigrants are from the UK, and they bought a plane ticket, and stayed. In some cases for decades.
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I would have to disagree with the fact about race. I don't care what anyone looks like...white, black, red, pink or green makes no difference to me.
I would also have to say that there are numerous reasons why someone chooses to illegally migrate...and i think that quite a large number are economic migrants - those seeking a better life yet who are not necessarily under any threat in their own country. There are also the genuine migrants who are under threat who are coming. This is hard to distinguish however as those with documentation are told to destroy prior to arriving as there is a belief that this will assist with applying for asylum.
I feel for those people you have met, and likewise i have met and are friends with refugees myself and also on the otherhand i have met others who have come here for economical purposes. I have also worked with kids who have been sent here like ur vietnamese friend - alone. There is a number of issues that flow on from this...like the 990 kids in detention some few years back and what was going to happen in regards to guardianship, schooling, finances etc.
Now call me selfish, but we have an underfunded child protection system here in Australia, with approximately 25% of our kids being abused either physically, sexually or emotionally. These are only the substantiated cases. We have an underfunded domestic violence system , where a woman who is being violated on a daily basis cannot even get accommodation because its full. Our hospitals don't have room and turn people away. We have a massive drug issue with crappy rehabilitation facilities that are insufficient. We have a massive homelessness problem where it takes 10yrs on department of housing to get a house, until then... rough it out on the street hey...we have a welfare system which is financially below the poverty line...i could go on and on about this but i think you get my point.
If i was to be homeless, unemployed and have domestic violence in my life...my chances of obtaining assistance is quite slim. I would not be provided accomodation immediately..i may even not be able to get a job because unless i have the qualifications it would make it very difficult..but this costs money...money i wouldnt have because i get below the poverty line everyday.
Take 2 - if i was here through being an asylum seeker...i would be put in detention with food, entertainment, people to support me into my resettlement if approved , activities and education..but i do have a loss of liberties. Not too bad a trade off. Then when i am approved to stay in Australia, i will have a house to go to, i will have a dedicated person to help me navigate life for awhile. I will get instant access to free education, intensive help to find work, financial assistance and access to specialised loans to get me on my feet....
I really do think this is the reason most Aussie's get upset over the system......not because of race but because a lack of social equality.
I would also have to say that there are numerous reasons why someone chooses to illegally migrate...and i think that quite a large number are economic migrants - those seeking a better life yet who are not necessarily under any threat in their own country. There are also the genuine migrants who are under threat who are coming. This is hard to distinguish however as those with documentation are told to destroy prior to arriving as there is a belief that this will assist with applying for asylum.
I feel for those people you have met, and likewise i have met and are friends with refugees myself and also on the otherhand i have met others who have come here for economical purposes. I have also worked with kids who have been sent here like ur vietnamese friend - alone. There is a number of issues that flow on from this...like the 990 kids in detention some few years back and what was going to happen in regards to guardianship, schooling, finances etc.
Now call me selfish, but we have an underfunded child protection system here in Australia, with approximately 25% of our kids being abused either physically, sexually or emotionally. These are only the substantiated cases. We have an underfunded domestic violence system , where a woman who is being violated on a daily basis cannot even get accommodation because its full. Our hospitals don't have room and turn people away. We have a massive drug issue with crappy rehabilitation facilities that are insufficient. We have a massive homelessness problem where it takes 10yrs on department of housing to get a house, until then... rough it out on the street hey...we have a welfare system which is financially below the poverty line...i could go on and on about this but i think you get my point.
If i was to be homeless, unemployed and have domestic violence in my life...my chances of obtaining assistance is quite slim. I would not be provided accomodation immediately..i may even not be able to get a job because unless i have the qualifications it would make it very difficult..but this costs money...money i wouldnt have because i get below the poverty line everyday.
Take 2 - if i was here through being an asylum seeker...i would be put in detention with food, entertainment, people to support me into my resettlement if approved , activities and education..but i do have a loss of liberties. Not too bad a trade off. Then when i am approved to stay in Australia, i will have a house to go to, i will have a dedicated person to help me navigate life for awhile. I will get instant access to free education, intensive help to find work, financial assistance and access to specialised loans to get me on my feet....
I really do think this is the reason most Aussie's get upset over the system......not because of race but because a lack of social equality.
C
Contrarian
i think that quite a large number are economic migrants - those seeking a better life yet who are not necessarily under any threat in their own country. There are also the genuine migrants who are under threat who are coming. This is hard to distinguish however as those with documentation are told to destroy prior to arriving as there is a belief that this will assist with applying for asylum.
Well rather than think it, how about substantiating it?
Now call me selfish, but we have an underfunded child protection system here in Australia, with approximately 25% of our kids being abused either physically, sexually or emotionally. These are only the substantiated cases. We have an underfunded domestic violence system , where a woman who is being violated on a daily basis cannot even get accommodation because its full. Our hospitals don't have room and turn people away. We have a massive drug issue with crappy rehabilitation facilities that are insufficient. We have a massive homelessness problem where it takes 10yrs on department of housing to get a house, until then... rough it out on the street hey...we have a welfare system which is financially below the poverty line...i could go on and on about this but i think you get my point.
The point I get is that blame is assigned to a comparatively very small handful of refugees vis-a-vis Australian population. The maladies you describe existed before the refugee issue even came to light. Take a look at the earlier colour charts showing what a small proportion they are.
If i was to be homeless, unemployed and have domestic violence in my life...my chances of obtaining assistance is quite slim. I would not be provided accomodation immediately..i may even not be able to get a job because unless i have the qualifications it would make it very difficult..but this costs money...money i wouldnt have because i get below the poverty line everyday.
Ditto response.
if i was here through being an asylum seeker...i would be put in detention with food, entertainment, people to support me into my resettlement if approved , activities and education..but i do have a loss of liberties. Not too bad a trade off. Then when i am approved to stay in Australia, i will have a house to go to, i will have a dedicated person to help me navigate life for awhile. I will get instant access to free education, intensive help to find work, financial assistance and access to specialised loans to get me on my feet....
Err, what access to specialized loans are you talking about? Secondly, there are many Australians who get access to the services above as well - housing, dedicated case workers and financial assistance. You only have to go to Centrelink and look at the queues. Don't Australians on the dole have access to "food, entertainment, people to support me into my resettlement if approved , activities and education" that you speak off?
If refugees get any access to anything at all - is it their fault? Is it something to complain about. They get it with your approval. It's the government that's voted in by the people who get a mandate - whether it's Howard or Gillard or Abbott. By the way, asylum seekers DON'T get Centrelink payments at all. They only can get it if their application is succesful and they're converted to refugees.
I really do think this is the reason most Aussie's get upset over the system......not because of race but because a lack of social equality.
I remember in the 80s, seeing these "Asians Out" stickers everywhere. Apart from the Vietnamese boat people, the rest were proper and legal migrants. It was pure racism. I don't see Australian people on the dole, who get free housing, politicians, free training being told it's unfair with car stickers. I do see refugees being told "Fuck off! We're full!". It's rednecked ignorant racism.
Well rather than think it, how about substantiating it?
Now call me selfish, but we have an underfunded child protection system here in Australia, with approximately 25% of our kids being abused either physically, sexually or emotionally. These are only the substantiated cases. We have an underfunded domestic violence system , where a woman who is being violated on a daily basis cannot even get accommodation because its full. Our hospitals don't have room and turn people away. We have a massive drug issue with crappy rehabilitation facilities that are insufficient. We have a massive homelessness problem where it takes 10yrs on department of housing to get a house, until then... rough it out on the street hey...we have a welfare system which is financially below the poverty line...i could go on and on about this but i think you get my point.
The point I get is that blame is assigned to a comparatively very small handful of refugees vis-a-vis Australian population. The maladies you describe existed before the refugee issue even came to light. Take a look at the earlier colour charts showing what a small proportion they are.
If i was to be homeless, unemployed and have domestic violence in my life...my chances of obtaining assistance is quite slim. I would not be provided accomodation immediately..i may even not be able to get a job because unless i have the qualifications it would make it very difficult..but this costs money...money i wouldnt have because i get below the poverty line everyday.
Ditto response.
if i was here through being an asylum seeker...i would be put in detention with food, entertainment, people to support me into my resettlement if approved , activities and education..but i do have a loss of liberties. Not too bad a trade off. Then when i am approved to stay in Australia, i will have a house to go to, i will have a dedicated person to help me navigate life for awhile. I will get instant access to free education, intensive help to find work, financial assistance and access to specialised loans to get me on my feet....
Err, what access to specialized loans are you talking about? Secondly, there are many Australians who get access to the services above as well - housing, dedicated case workers and financial assistance. You only have to go to Centrelink and look at the queues. Don't Australians on the dole have access to "food, entertainment, people to support me into my resettlement if approved , activities and education" that you speak off?
If refugees get any access to anything at all - is it their fault? Is it something to complain about. They get it with your approval. It's the government that's voted in by the people who get a mandate - whether it's Howard or Gillard or Abbott. By the way, asylum seekers DON'T get Centrelink payments at all. They only can get it if their application is succesful and they're converted to refugees.
I really do think this is the reason most Aussie's get upset over the system......not because of race but because a lack of social equality.
I remember in the 80s, seeing these "Asians Out" stickers everywhere. Apart from the Vietnamese boat people, the rest were proper and legal migrants. It was pure racism. I don't see Australian people on the dole, who get free housing, politicians, free training being told it's unfair with car stickers. I do see refugees being told "Fuck off! We're full!". It's rednecked ignorant racism.
C
Contrarian
This is from an Australian Government Department of Immigration and Citizenship website:
Do refugees receive more than other Australians?
There have been a number of concerns raised within parts of the Australian community that more assistance is provided to refugee entrants than to other Australians, such as pensioners. There is no truth to these claims.
Refugees and other humanitarian entrants do not receive higher benefits than other social security recipients. They have the same entitlements as all other Australian permanent residents. Refugees do not have their rental bonds automatically paid for by the government, nor do they receive a lump sum payment from the government upon arrival.
Do refugees receive more than other Australians?
There have been a number of concerns raised within parts of the Australian community that more assistance is provided to refugee entrants than to other Australians, such as pensioners. There is no truth to these claims.
Refugees and other humanitarian entrants do not receive higher benefits than other social security recipients. They have the same entitlements as all other Australian permanent residents. Refugees do not have their rental bonds automatically paid for by the government, nor do they receive a lump sum payment from the government upon arrival.
Happy2
Legend Member
- Points
- 22
Australia has increased its refugee quota to 20 000 already this year we have had 11 000 people arrive by boat
Does that mean any person who has applied through the proper channels has to miss out once the magic 20 000 number is hit?
I have a a offsider Tendai and his wife working with me It was several years before they had their chance to land here and get there chance of a new life I would hate to think they could have been denied there new life because others took a more circuitous route to the promised land
Does that mean any person who has applied through the proper channels has to miss out once the magic 20 000 number is hit?
I have a a offsider Tendai and his wife working with me It was several years before they had their chance to land here and get there chance of a new life I would hate to think they could have been denied there new life because others took a more circuitous route to the promised land
C
Contrarian
The little I know about the subject Happy is that the reason they're put in these camps is to stop them from queue jumping. Hope Tendai gets in.
Happy2
Legend Member
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- 22
I may not have said it properly Contrarian Tendai and his wife have been full Australian citizens for a few years They came from Zimbabwe Just they did it via the UN and Australian immigration
asianguy77
Diamond Member
- Points
- 4
Let's put things into perspective. If you were watch the news, it appears we have a 'invasion' of illegal immigrants, with boat loads arriving on a daily basis. If you look up the statistics on refugees, you will find the amount Australia takes is minimal in comparison to the rest of the world.
There will always be refugees, where people will risk their lives and the lives of their loved ones to flee their own homeland. Although we should protect Australia's borders, lets not get into a hysteria about it. The focus should be on, discouraging people paying smugglers and risking their lives.
This is not a simple issue, and the oppositions claim they can stop the boats is an outright lie, which they should be called out on. Remember the children overboard scandal?
There will always be refugees, where people will risk their lives and the lives of their loved ones to flee their own homeland. Although we should protect Australia's borders, lets not get into a hysteria about it. The focus should be on, discouraging people paying smugglers and risking their lives.
This is not a simple issue, and the oppositions claim they can stop the boats is an outright lie, which they should be called out on. Remember the children overboard scandal?
daman
Silver Member
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- 0
Exactly. Australia should worry more about dealing with other countries and implementing techniques that aim to lower the numbers.
C
Contrarian
Even that makes me ask the question. If we aim to lower the numbers, where are the poor and suffering of those countries to go then?
Happy2
Legend Member
- Points
- 22
I guess it would not affect the truly poor as they are not in a position to pay people smugglers anyway
C
Contrarian
It would happy. One member of the family will seek all sorts of loans, send the one son or family and then remain behind and slave away to pay that loan. Alternatively, the women may go into prostitution to raise the funds.
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The crux of this issue is contained in the following.
To make it easier I have highlighted it in the colour of BLOOD.
On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma, (Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:
"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians.
The politicians in the Duma gave Putin a standing ovation for five minutes.
To make it easier I have highlighted it in the colour of BLOOD.
On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma, (Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:
"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians.
The politicians in the Duma gave Putin a standing ovation for five minutes.
Happy2
Legend Member
- Points
- 22
Putin may be only one step away from being a dictator
But even dictators a correct sometimes
C
Contrarian
If he had spoken to the Ku Klux Klan perhaps they too would have given him a five minute standing ovation. And how do you know the Russian audience were genuinely clapping from their hearts knowing that this man ran the KGB and could end their lives anytime he chose to? I'd give his view more credibility if he said it before the United Nations.
Perhaps dictators may be right but they're often wrong - Hitler introduced the world to the process of elimination. And if the dictator like President Xi Jinping said all white men should be killed for the damage they do the environment and for corrupting Asian values, you'd be hollering for help for sure.
If you want Australia to be a land of one culture, one race it'll be a tremendously megaboring place. And technically, it was the Aborigines' to begin with, and we have failed to fit in then.
Alternatively, if you want to make it a closed society, Australia will pay a very huge technological and agricultural price as none will be imported or exported like Russia and Korea had for almost a century. And Russia and Korea certainly became boring places. Even Langtrees would have women of one ethnicity.
sparky
Legend Member
- Points
- 46
If Julia took notice and copied this line of thought and speech she may just beat both Abbot and Rudd
casualsexboi
Silver Member
- Points
- 0
What fucks me off royally is how hard it is for someone who is from the UK, and by someone I mean me, to get PR here when I speak the same language, have integrated for all the years I've been here, worked legally and paid taxes, am part of the commonwealth and share the same queen (all the goof she does pfft) because I don't have one of the trades listed on the csol because I'm not entitled to undergo an apprenticeship and can't afford to pay 35k uni fees up front every 6 months. I want a better fucking life for myself just like the poor refugees and why does Antone need a visa to fucking live somewhere we should be free to go where we please. I'm all for keeping an eye on people and kicking them out if they misbehave. I've spent a small fortune on my attempts (ongoing) to obtain PR. Immigration is fucked in general.
A
Al Swearengen
I worked in a detention centre for a couple of years. I saw some ugly sights.
One of the reasons I went to work there is I wanted to see for myself what happened without being subjected to different opinions put forward by different groups all with their own agendas.
Illegal Immigration is one of the most complex issues facing any country. Its not as simple as "kick all the bastards out" or, alternatively, "let all the bastards in"
As it stands, I think we're doing all right. But we need to review the process in a huge way and tighten it right up. We need to not be afraid to stand up for the rights of our country and actually send people home if they dont meet the criteria for refugee status. Endless appeal processes DONT work!
As it stands, we accept refugees because we're signatories to the UN's charter for human rights. If we stop accepting refugees (not live up to our end of the charter) that can have a range of effects elsewhere. The plus or minuses of being a UN member is a BIG discussion for another time.
Accepting refugees is the right thing to do but we need to be tougher about who we accept. And we certainly dont make it easier to get in illegally then what is legally!!
One of the reasons I went to work there is I wanted to see for myself what happened without being subjected to different opinions put forward by different groups all with their own agendas.
Illegal Immigration is one of the most complex issues facing any country. Its not as simple as "kick all the bastards out" or, alternatively, "let all the bastards in"
As it stands, I think we're doing all right. But we need to review the process in a huge way and tighten it right up. We need to not be afraid to stand up for the rights of our country and actually send people home if they dont meet the criteria for refugee status. Endless appeal processes DONT work!
As it stands, we accept refugees because we're signatories to the UN's charter for human rights. If we stop accepting refugees (not live up to our end of the charter) that can have a range of effects elsewhere. The plus or minuses of being a UN member is a BIG discussion for another time.
Accepting refugees is the right thing to do but we need to be tougher about who we accept. And we certainly dont make it easier to get in illegally then what is legally!!
T
Thatguy
Source : Wikipedia
The main armament of the Armidale class is a Rafael Typhoon stabilised 25-millimetre (0.98 in) gun mount fitted with an M242 Bushmaster cannon.[8] This cannon has a rate of fire of 200 rounds per minute, and is controlled remotely from the bridge
just aim below the water line...
The main armament of the Armidale class is a Rafael Typhoon stabilised 25-millimetre (0.98 in) gun mount fitted with an M242 Bushmaster cannon.[8] This cannon has a rate of fire of 200 rounds per minute, and is controlled remotely from the bridge
just aim below the water line...
C
Contrarian
26/5/2013
Originally Posted by Thatguy
Why is it whenever new technology comes out like this all people think of first is making weapons... Isn't the world dangerous enough without having to worry bout your neighbour printing guns in the spare room....
Surely the time spent on doing this could have been better spent making something productive and beneficial to society...
Originally Posted by Thatguy
Why is it whenever new technology comes out like this all people think of first is making weapons... Isn't the world dangerous enough without having to worry bout your neighbour printing guns in the spare room....
Surely the time spent on doing this could have been better spent making something productive and beneficial to society...