RIP TO ALL ON FLIGHT MH17
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3rd World War is Coming............................
Madam Jacqueline
Thanks for the positive thought! NOT
scarlett lee
Gold Member
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Another sad day for humanity.
sqizza
Gold Member
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I was laying down this evening relaxing reading the news when I came across the article below and it really hit me hard. The inhumane atrocity of the taking of such innocent lives when will it all end I ask myself? What have we done to this planet we call home? What have we become?
At an orphanage on the outskirts of Donetsk in Ukraine’s east last Thursday, 20 children chatted and joked as they enjoyed a late lunch in the garden, a canopy of trees offering some relief from the stifling temperatures in the scruffy institution’s rooms.
Then a boom rang out in the skies overhead and for a moment, they saw nothing. They remained quiet.
And then it rained human bodies and debris from Malaysian Airlines MH17.
“Big birds flying to us from the sky,” one child recalled, thinking at that moment anything else was unimaginable.
Within moments bodies were strewn along their street with two in the garden of the small institution, one the body of a Malaysian boy aged in his early teens — not much older that those who moments earlier had been enjoying an outdoor summer lunch — and another of a woman.
She had no face, the ground impact erasing all features. Both were naked with the fall tearing away at their clothes.
In the home next door a man still strapped into his seat landed in a garden of an elderly grandmother. She thinks it was a man — there was nothing above the torso. Across rooftops things fell, books, bags, knives and forks then later a section of a cockpit landed across the road from the orphanage.
Eight bodies in total were found in that small area alone..
“It was almost biblical,” a woman at the orphanage said.
“You think about their life these children, they have already encountered so much, some have fathers in jail others no parents, they hear shelling and bombings every day nearby and here they are in the garden when bodies and things fall. Can you imagine that? Of course they were upset but they were also upset because they were today to go to the Black Sea for a break to get away and the local train station is bombed and now they cannot go.”
A teacher at the orphanage, Larissa Zvereva, breaks down in tears as she recounts the horror. She cannot speak.
The people, young and old, from the rural villages about Donetsk — the self proclaimed capital of the pro-Russian separatist forces — have been deeply affected by the death of the 298 passengers and crew from MH17.
These are battle-hardened people but they are in deep shock by the horror of what they have seen and smelt of recent days.
At an orphanage on the outskirts of Donetsk in Ukraine’s east last Thursday, 20 children chatted and joked as they enjoyed a late lunch in the garden, a canopy of trees offering some relief from the stifling temperatures in the scruffy institution’s rooms.
Then a boom rang out in the skies overhead and for a moment, they saw nothing. They remained quiet.
And then it rained human bodies and debris from Malaysian Airlines MH17.
“Big birds flying to us from the sky,” one child recalled, thinking at that moment anything else was unimaginable.
Within moments bodies were strewn along their street with two in the garden of the small institution, one the body of a Malaysian boy aged in his early teens — not much older that those who moments earlier had been enjoying an outdoor summer lunch — and another of a woman.
She had no face, the ground impact erasing all features. Both were naked with the fall tearing away at their clothes.
In the home next door a man still strapped into his seat landed in a garden of an elderly grandmother. She thinks it was a man — there was nothing above the torso. Across rooftops things fell, books, bags, knives and forks then later a section of a cockpit landed across the road from the orphanage.
Eight bodies in total were found in that small area alone..
“It was almost biblical,” a woman at the orphanage said.
“You think about their life these children, they have already encountered so much, some have fathers in jail others no parents, they hear shelling and bombings every day nearby and here they are in the garden when bodies and things fall. Can you imagine that? Of course they were upset but they were also upset because they were today to go to the Black Sea for a break to get away and the local train station is bombed and now they cannot go.”
A teacher at the orphanage, Larissa Zvereva, breaks down in tears as she recounts the horror. She cannot speak.
The people, young and old, from the rural villages about Donetsk — the self proclaimed capital of the pro-Russian separatist forces — have been deeply affected by the death of the 298 passengers and crew from MH17.
These are battle-hardened people but they are in deep shock by the horror of what they have seen and smelt of recent days.
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It's only through dumb luck that nobody on the ground was killed by the falling debris. If it had happened over a more heavily populated part of town, the death toll could have been higher. Almost a dozen people in Lockerbie were killed when Pan Am 103 was blown out of the sky above their hitherto peaceful little village.
I don't think we have become any worse than what we have always been, when you consider the litany of atrocities through the ages, most of it much more brutal and committed at close quarters than this tragedy (Vikings illustrates this very well if you haven't seen this series). Thanks to technology, it's just easier to take many more lives remotely than ever, so you don't have to see your victim's eyes before you kill them.
I don't think we have become any worse than what we have always been, when you consider the litany of atrocities through the ages, most of it much more brutal and committed at close quarters than this tragedy (Vikings illustrates this very well if you haven't seen this series). Thanks to technology, it's just easier to take many more lives remotely than ever, so you don't have to see your victim's eyes before you kill them.
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You're Welcome DD, lOVE YOU................
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It makes it sad we are living in this kind of world..... all the years of war & hate & History has not taught us anything!
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On the News today they said that the locals went through the belongings of the passengers and took phones and luggage........first I thought WTF but then I thought about the situation of the locals (again not an excuse just an effort to understand what is going on apart from the political complications....the human tragedy....not only 300 dead people but also the "how can we survive" instinct of the locals.) Look I try not to judge their behaviour here to go and help themselves to bits and pieces. It seems very unethical to us far away in Australia but I don't know what I would do if I would be in their (the local's shoes and hopefully I will never find out). A human tragedy as much as a political one.
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this is how the locals survive , the best way they can
bushseeker
Foundation Member
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Abbot isnt getting the credit he desereves. Hes been very direct to Russia and quite rightly so.
Mobile missiles that can take out a supersonic fighter jet flying at 40000 ft are not found any other way way than provided by superpowers.
Arms dealers dont have access to cutting edge weaponry
Russias hanprints are all over this
Mobile missiles that can take out a supersonic fighter jet flying at 40000 ft are not found any other way way than provided by superpowers.
Arms dealers dont have access to cutting edge weaponry
Russias hanprints are all over this
Angelina Ab
Bronze Member
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So you know RUSSIA REFUSE TO TAKE THOSE BLACK BOXES. ITS BEEN TRANSFERRED TO INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION.
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It really UPSETS ME, HOW QUICKLY EVERYONE INCLUDING THE FUCKWIT TONY ABBOT POINT HIS FINGER AT RUSSIANS !!!!! How DARE YOU????? Yes, it was Russian missile. Ukraine was part of USSR, remember? If the war would be between NZ and Tasmania now? whose missiles would be used?????? Swedish ???
Russia already deal enough with sanctions. As much as they play tough, ordinary people started to suffer. Have you ever given a thought WHY hundred and thousands refugees from south--east Ukraine. Ukrainian refugees running towards NOT capital KIEV, BUT RUSSIA?????? They running from they own Ukrainian government!!!!! Coup HAS HAPPENS IN Ukraine 6 month ago. Open your eyes you Australian zombies, VICTIMS of american propaganda!!!! Supported by you and by USA, EU, BLOODSHED GOES IN UKRAINE. And not everyone in Ukraine agree with outcome OF COUP. By the way, if you read news people still STAND UP ON MAIN SQUARE IN ( KIEV) MAIDAN AND REFUSE TO LEAVE BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY WERE TAKEN FOR A RIDE....
Why capital of Ukraine Kiev allow to kill its own innocent people? Australians automatically take side of Americans without trying to get into in and understand. If tomorrow all aboriginal people would be told ,,,,,,YOU NOT allowed to speak native languages , English and only English, would you kill them too???? Bombarding schools, hospitals, innocent sector with orders from Canberra??????
In regards to plane.....
Maybe you should wait until investigation have finished and that call names????? Maybe its Tony Abbot throw boomerang from Darwin and shot the plane????? How do I know????????????
By the way air-plane been shot on Ukrainian territory and not separatists. And its all traffic root have been controlled but Ukrainian traffic controllers. Who advised air plane to go lower than it should be????????? So for f@ck sake...... stop taking single sided american propaganda opinion and think for yourself ?????? Why Russians would shoot the plane? Benefits??????
By the way why Ukrainian authority NOW not allow international experts to get involved with investigation now? Thats right they hiding what they can. At this stage there some Malaysian investigators over there but its not enough. I know why Ukrainians would do it. Its great provocation to bring NATO forces into Ukraine to take on Russia.
PS : DO YOU WHAT WILL HAPPENS FURTHER?????? You can all throw your sh#t on Russia and Russians, Putin etc. And they will keep very quite....But than when you done, and saod enough, they will put cards on the table where you will see all prove that air plane been shot by Ukrainian authorities. Putin was talking about stopping this war from day 1. But no one listen to him. Simply because Obama playing his games and put pressure with other countries. How many countries the Nobel price kepeer Obama has invaded last 10 years???? Count it,,,,,
Everyone saw liberation of Ukrainian government from corruption 6 month ago.....No. That was replacement of one oligarchs to other more ruthless oligarchs. By the way, I am not for Putin I am for truth. But its seems that Obama and Abbot obsessed to put every killed dog on Putin recently...
PS : Ukrainian government now like bunch of rats now fighting for power. They don't care about anyone. They kill they own people, children and now foreigners. I just remind you in 1970-etc... about Pol Pot in Cambodia. Who was supported by United Nations, Australia, USA and Germany and Pol Pot kill 3 million of its own people!!!! And now you keep it silently... Dont forget that lesson of history. So NOW the blood of innocent people killed in Ukraine now belong to America, Europe and Australia.
Russia already deal enough with sanctions. As much as they play tough, ordinary people started to suffer. Have you ever given a thought WHY hundred and thousands refugees from south--east Ukraine. Ukrainian refugees running towards NOT capital KIEV, BUT RUSSIA?????? They running from they own Ukrainian government!!!!! Coup HAS HAPPENS IN Ukraine 6 month ago. Open your eyes you Australian zombies, VICTIMS of american propaganda!!!! Supported by you and by USA, EU, BLOODSHED GOES IN UKRAINE. And not everyone in Ukraine agree with outcome OF COUP. By the way, if you read news people still STAND UP ON MAIN SQUARE IN ( KIEV) MAIDAN AND REFUSE TO LEAVE BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY WERE TAKEN FOR A RIDE....
Why capital of Ukraine Kiev allow to kill its own innocent people? Australians automatically take side of Americans without trying to get into in and understand. If tomorrow all aboriginal people would be told ,,,,,,YOU NOT allowed to speak native languages , English and only English, would you kill them too???? Bombarding schools, hospitals, innocent sector with orders from Canberra??????
In regards to plane.....
Maybe you should wait until investigation have finished and that call names????? Maybe its Tony Abbot throw boomerang from Darwin and shot the plane????? How do I know????????????
By the way air-plane been shot on Ukrainian territory and not separatists. And its all traffic root have been controlled but Ukrainian traffic controllers. Who advised air plane to go lower than it should be????????? So for f@ck sake...... stop taking single sided american propaganda opinion and think for yourself ?????? Why Russians would shoot the plane? Benefits??????
By the way why Ukrainian authority NOW not allow international experts to get involved with investigation now? Thats right they hiding what they can. At this stage there some Malaysian investigators over there but its not enough. I know why Ukrainians would do it. Its great provocation to bring NATO forces into Ukraine to take on Russia.
PS : DO YOU WHAT WILL HAPPENS FURTHER?????? You can all throw your sh#t on Russia and Russians, Putin etc. And they will keep very quite....But than when you done, and saod enough, they will put cards on the table where you will see all prove that air plane been shot by Ukrainian authorities. Putin was talking about stopping this war from day 1. But no one listen to him. Simply because Obama playing his games and put pressure with other countries. How many countries the Nobel price kepeer Obama has invaded last 10 years???? Count it,,,,,
Everyone saw liberation of Ukrainian government from corruption 6 month ago.....No. That was replacement of one oligarchs to other more ruthless oligarchs. By the way, I am not for Putin I am for truth. But its seems that Obama and Abbot obsessed to put every killed dog on Putin recently...
PS : Ukrainian government now like bunch of rats now fighting for power. They don't care about anyone. They kill they own people, children and now foreigners. I just remind you in 1970-etc... about Pol Pot in Cambodia. Who was supported by United Nations, Australia, USA and Germany and Pol Pot kill 3 million of its own people!!!! And now you keep it silently... Dont forget that lesson of history. So NOW the blood of innocent people killed in Ukraine now belong to America, Europe and Australia.
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bushseeker
Foundation Member
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Why would the russians shoot down a plane?
Well same reason they shot down a fully loaded korean airlines airlines passenger 747 a mig had identified as being a passenger jet then unleashed several missiles on it.
No reason
Well same reason they shot down a fully loaded korean airlines airlines passenger 747 a mig had identified as being a passenger jet then unleashed several missiles on it.
No reason
bushseeker
Foundation Member
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As for any investigation the crime scene has been destroyed. ... whose pulling the strings there?
The hight the plane flew at is crap. Planes are extremely regularly given alternate altitudes to fly at to fit in with other traffic.
They dont only pass each other side by side but over each other as well.
1or 2thousand feet wouldnt have saved the plane from advanced Russian made and trained if not used weaponary
The hight the plane flew at is crap. Planes are extremely regularly given alternate altitudes to fly at to fit in with other traffic.
They dont only pass each other side by side but over each other as well.
1or 2thousand feet wouldnt have saved the plane from advanced Russian made and trained if not used weaponary
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???????????? Excuse me, for no reason someone can shoot you in drunken battle in Russian bar but not in the sky. Maybe you should read more books and educate yourself better.
1 Soviet Union shot down a passenger plane IN 1983. That was Soviet Union and now its Russian federation 2014 with different leader of the country!!!!!!
2 The Soviets in 1983 initially thought the plane — on a direct heading toward its secretive naval base .
3 There were a few requests made for airline to identify itself but the silence and nothing else went back. I know it all in details because my stepfather was involved in that accident. After a few drinks in the kitchen he was talking about it with tears. He said he was ordered and he did it. The reason was, obsessed with security Russian suspected espionage, cold war in 1983. it was Russian territory. My stepfather and a few others got promotion and medal for it.... And never worn it. So bushkeeper, before you make big conclusions read more.
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Ahoy;- Anastasia and Bushseeker;- Both off you take a deep breath and walk away from the debate. I can feel that both off you have an opinion you wish needs to be shared.
This is a RIP thread, not a political attack thread.
So I ask both of you to take a deep breath and move away. Do not place all three of US in a difficult position that we all will regret later.
Peace and love with respect to you both from;- HP
This is a RIP thread, not a political attack thread.
So I ask both of you to take a deep breath and move away. Do not place all three of US in a difficult position that we all will regret later.
Peace and love with respect to you both from;- HP
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I was talking to my friends from Eastern Europe last two days..... Because we all fly through KL to Europe... I got 30 phone calls if I and my friends was ok and didn't fly anywhere......I offer my deep condolences to the families and loved ones of the victims... Please, stay strong...
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Ahoy "RIP FLIGHT MH17"
L
Lord Spikey
This incident is a terrible, terrible tragedy.
What motivated it, if it was done on purpose, we need to know.
Why it happened, if it was an accident (it is a war zone), we also need to know.
Families are grieving and expecting and some are demanding justice.
The world is fired up over this incident and we are all looking for someone to blame.
Those speaking loudest; Tony Abbott, Barack Obama, etc, have a tough job. They need to be seen to be doing all they can. It is expected by the people who voted them in and by the world, who see them as leaders. They have to say something or the masses will take matters into their own hands.
I am sure that there would be many volunteers to go over and wring the neck of the person who pushed the button.
If we are not very careful, this thing will get out of control.
Someone is to blame; yes and we need to allow the authorities time and resources to do their jobs. We need to trust that they WILL do their jobs and justice and common sense will prevail.
My heart bleeds for those who have suffered and those who are suffering and those who will suffer forever. I can think of nothing worse than hearing stories of your loved ones falling out of the sky after having been blown to pieces. These things should never happen, let alone to innocents and especially children.
We all need some closure on this. We all need to understand, but what is more important is the desperate need to prevent it from happening again.
We must not forget. George Santayan said " Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".
History shows us that we do repeat the past; often and regularly.
Put a stop to war. Put an end to hatred. Give Peace a Chance. We may just like it.
Now, to Anastacia's post, if I may?
Anastacia, my gorgeous girl. When I read your post I could not help reading it in your Russian accent. I could feel the passion with which you wrote and I understand from where you come. As I have suggested above, our world leaders need to be seen to be doing something and as there is little to be done until the culprit is identified, they can only wave their arms and cry foul. Everyone assumes it was Russian artillery that downed the plane and it is easy to look towards Russia as the country which may have supplied the hardware. That may be the case, but I agree with you in that, like the American quote that it is "People who kill, not weapons" and you cannot blame a country which manufactures weapons for what those weapons may do sometime in the future.Many countries produce weapons and those weapons will eventually find their way into the hands of people who want to use them.
We, here in Australia have very little understanding of the situation in Ukraine, apart from what we see and hear in the news. We know that you are from that region and have an intimate knowledge of what has transpired over the years, but we are ignorant of the realities. Please excuse our innocence and naivety, but please do not insult our country's leader so vehemently. He is trying to do what his people expect him to do.
Our thoughts and those of the good people of the world are with the victims and the victims families. We are all just running around angry and lashing out in frustration and just like when people get angry, they may and do say things they may later regret.
Please be peaceful and consider the victims, sweetheart.
What motivated it, if it was done on purpose, we need to know.
Why it happened, if it was an accident (it is a war zone), we also need to know.
Families are grieving and expecting and some are demanding justice.
The world is fired up over this incident and we are all looking for someone to blame.
Those speaking loudest; Tony Abbott, Barack Obama, etc, have a tough job. They need to be seen to be doing all they can. It is expected by the people who voted them in and by the world, who see them as leaders. They have to say something or the masses will take matters into their own hands.
I am sure that there would be many volunteers to go over and wring the neck of the person who pushed the button.
If we are not very careful, this thing will get out of control.
Someone is to blame; yes and we need to allow the authorities time and resources to do their jobs. We need to trust that they WILL do their jobs and justice and common sense will prevail.
My heart bleeds for those who have suffered and those who are suffering and those who will suffer forever. I can think of nothing worse than hearing stories of your loved ones falling out of the sky after having been blown to pieces. These things should never happen, let alone to innocents and especially children.
We all need some closure on this. We all need to understand, but what is more important is the desperate need to prevent it from happening again.
We must not forget. George Santayan said " Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".
History shows us that we do repeat the past; often and regularly.
Put a stop to war. Put an end to hatred. Give Peace a Chance. We may just like it.
Now, to Anastacia's post, if I may?
Anastacia, my gorgeous girl. When I read your post I could not help reading it in your Russian accent. I could feel the passion with which you wrote and I understand from where you come. As I have suggested above, our world leaders need to be seen to be doing something and as there is little to be done until the culprit is identified, they can only wave their arms and cry foul. Everyone assumes it was Russian artillery that downed the plane and it is easy to look towards Russia as the country which may have supplied the hardware. That may be the case, but I agree with you in that, like the American quote that it is "People who kill, not weapons" and you cannot blame a country which manufactures weapons for what those weapons may do sometime in the future.Many countries produce weapons and those weapons will eventually find their way into the hands of people who want to use them.
We, here in Australia have very little understanding of the situation in Ukraine, apart from what we see and hear in the news. We know that you are from that region and have an intimate knowledge of what has transpired over the years, but we are ignorant of the realities. Please excuse our innocence and naivety, but please do not insult our country's leader so vehemently. He is trying to do what his people expect him to do.
Our thoughts and those of the good people of the world are with the victims and the victims families. We are all just running around angry and lashing out in frustration and just like when people get angry, they may and do say things they may later regret.
Please be peaceful and consider the victims, sweetheart.
Farm Boy 2
Legend Member
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Anastacia is right about Obamas Nobel Peace Prize and there may be some truth in her assessment of the political situation in the Ukraine;
And Bush Seeker is correct about the planes altitude apparent the Buk missile system is good for more than *80 thousand feet and can be used against high performance military aircraft a big fat slow airliner was easy meat .
And Bush Seeker is correct about the planes altitude apparent the Buk missile system is good for more than *80 thousand feet and can be used against high performance military aircraft a big fat slow airliner was easy meat .
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After reading all the latest posts.........at the end of the day........please no finger pointing.......let's facts take over the investigation........it is bad enough as it is and it would be even worse if this disaster would create an even bigger disaster. Unfortunately every military conflict claims a huge list of innocent lives. So I can only hope that everybody involved finds a voice of reason and goes for damage control rather than confrontation.
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Just to prove my point. Malaysian investigators was trying to get access to place of wreckage yesterday, when they were bombarded by Ukrainian army. By the way, Ukrainian army was warned that Malay authorities will work in there. Remember that is summer over there and Donezk can get to + 40 . Obviously, they got something to hide in this case. So Malaysian people turn back and left. Well, for now, the black boxes was recovered and passed by so called separatists on in good condition without breakage, to British authorities. We will wait...
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Just to remind to you bushkeeper personally and others .. About most recent story..... ..Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 was a commercial flight shot down by the Ukrainian military over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, on route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The plane, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members. Most of the passengers were Israelis visiting relatives in Russia. No one on board survived. The crash site is some 190 km west-southwest of the Black Sea resort of Sochi .
Ukraine eventually admitted that the disaster was probably caused by an errant missile fired by its armed forces. Crash was caused by an accidental Ukrainian S-200 missile strike during military training exercises. So when you , mention Korean plane in 1983 don't forget about this one. By the way.... Families didn't even got apology from Ukrainian government in that time. They have have been told, by government, " Jews should not fly above Ukraine"... Upss.... For mistake...
Ukraine eventually admitted that the disaster was probably caused by an errant missile fired by its armed forces. Crash was caused by an accidental Ukrainian S-200 missile strike during military training exercises. So when you , mention Korean plane in 1983 don't forget about this one. By the way.... Families didn't even got apology from Ukrainian government in that time. They have have been told, by government, " Jews should not fly above Ukraine"... Upss.... For mistake...
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