What Comes After Covid19 for Manufacturing Industries? More Here In Australia?

[Phoebe]

Any news on things getting back to normal in Perth?

The way the Local Govt is talking 6-12 months.... What happens after the 6 month lease ban evictions and the job payment payment stops etc etc, extend that then what? They have created one massive mess here, one that the only hope in hell to get out of it will be is to align Australia even more closer to India/China and Japan. In the last lull of the economy China was just kicking off, and that grew Australia there is no China now so that only leaves India... Australia is going to have to make some serious hard decisions very soon, some that some Aussies will rejoice over but some that will leave many going crazy!

You can't grow a nation on Craft Beer, Burgers, and Barista's you need a massive Manufacturing sector.. Look at how China does it..

Turn over your device, Made in China... but hey !

 

[Phoebe]

normal

You can grow on that above..


Not this below:



When the penny finally drops in the States and Territories and The ACT and go back to Manufacturing then things will be different. \

 

[Helsinkifin]

The way the Local Govt is talking 6-12 months.... What happens after the 6 month lease ban evictions and the job payment payment stops etc etc, extend that then what? They have created one massive mess here, one that the only hope in hell to get out of it will be is to align Australia even more closer to India/China and Japan. In the last lull of the economy China was just kicking off, and that grew Australia there is no China now so that only leaves India... Australia is going to have to make some serious hard decisions very soon, some that some Aussies will rejoice over but some that will leave many going crazy!

You can't grow a nation on Craft Beer, Burgers, and Barista's you need a massive Manufacturing sector.. Look at how China does it..

Turn over your device, Made in China... but hey !

Thank you for this. No reason we can't do this here.....just that capital could make greater profits there so manufacturing was sent overseas. Sadly western countries also lost a lot of expertise.

 

[The Voice]

And to think the Australian government closed down the car industry a few years ago, along with the manufacturing supply chains.

 

[Tania Admin]

And to think the Australian government closed down the car industry a few years ago, along with the manufacturing supply chains.

The government did not close them down. They just stopped sinking our tax $ into a failing industry that was not even Australian owned.

 

[dan60]

When the penny finally drops in the States and Territories and The ACT and go back to Manufacturing then things will be different. \

but how do we compete?
a few of my friends have moved manafacturing to china and the philippines.
they did it with a heavy heart, but they cannot compete and pay aussie wages.
maybe we could start manufacturing here and put big tariffs on imports for the same items.
see how that goes

 

[Phoebe]

but how do we compete?
a few of my friends have moved manafacturing to china and the philippines.
they did it with a heavy heart, but they cannot compete and pay aussie wages.
maybe we could start manufacturing here and put big tariffs on imports for the same items.
see how that goes

Maybe the bottom needs to drop out of the world's most expensive houses, that would be a start!

 

[Roo]

The government did not close them down. They just stopped sinking our tax $ into a failing industry that was not even Australian owned.

It wasn't that all outcomes from car manufacturing was detrimental to Australia. As workers that were Australian based taxes and money were spent in Aus. Our taxes still support these employees as many are now on the dole. Also the technology capital with much of it tranferrerabke I. E. Engineers was developed and remained in Australia. Now you buy a Mustang other than the salesman salary, all the moneys leaves the country. If still open these factories could be pushing out incubators in this current crisis.

 

[Tania Admin]

It wasn't that all outcomes from car manufacturing was detrimental to Australia. As workers that were Australian based taxes and money were spent in Aus. Our taxes still support these employees as many are now on the dole. Also the technology capital with much of it tranferrerabke I. E. Engineers was developed and remained in Australia. Now you buy a Mustang other than the salesman salary, all the moneys leaves the country. If still open these factories could be pushing out incubators in this current crisis.

I had friends working for 2 of the car factories. They were all given notice ages in advance that closing was in the works, so they did courses and strengthened and expanded their skill sets until closing day. 3 out of 4 went into new jobs straight away the 4th chose early retirement.

 

[Lingus]

It wasn't that all outcomes from car manufacturing was detrimental ... ... Now you buy a Mustang other than the salesman salary, all the moneys leaves the country. If still open these factories could be pushing out incubators in this current crisis.

Interestingly, with the current suspension of Supercars motor racing here in Australia, Triple Eight Race Engineering (owners of the Red Bull Holden Racing Team) have put their skills forward to creating a ventilator machine designed to assist hospital ICUs in the treatment of COVID-19.

Also, in relation to Australian automotive manufacturing and supply chain businesses, HSV (part of the Walkinshaw Automotive Group) have been employing more staff during the past 2 years - and outsourcing work to supplier companies - in the process of remanufacturing Left Hand Drive vehicles such as the Chevrolet Camaro sports coupe and the Chevrolet Silverado and (Chrysler/Dodge) Ram pick up trucks.

Not that any of this relates in any way to the thread topic of "I miss punting" ...

 

[Tania Admin]

Interestingly, with the current suspension of Supercars motor racing here in Australia, Triple Eight Race Engineering (owners of the Red Bull Holden Racing Team) have put their skills forward to creating a ventilator machine designed to assist hospital ICUs in the treatment of COVID-19.

Also, in relation to Australian automotive manufacturing and supply chain businesses, HSV (part of the Walkinshaw Automotive Group) have been employing more staff during the past 2 years - and outsourcing work to supplier companies - in the process of remanufacturing Left Hand Drive vehicles such as the Chevrolet Camaro sports coupe and the Chevrolet Silverado and (Chrysler/Dodge) Ram pick up trucks.

Not that any of this relates in any way to the thread topic of "I miss punting" ...

Funny you said that as I had just moved all the posts, except yours which came just after I moved them, to a new thread. Obviously I've moved this post now too

 

[Lingus]

Funny you said that as I had just moved all the posts, except yours which came just after I moved them, to a new thread. Obviously I've moved this post now too

Ha ! ... for a moment there, I thought I was losing my mind !!!

Thanks Tania, for keeping the forums tidy.

 

[Roo]

another Phoebe drivel spout....

101 how to fix the world, if only our politicians were talkinsex members

 

[The Voice]

The government did not close them down. They just stopped sinking our tax $ into a failing industry that was not even Australian owned.

Well that is the same thing. All countries that manufacture cars subsidise their car industry, including Germany, France, Japan, Korea and so on. The issue in Australia is the lack of leadership, foresight and toxic neo liberal economics. That the manufacturers were foreign owned is irrelevant as the manufacturing capacity remains on our soil (for example in the second world war Holden was repurposed to manufacture arms and military equipment, just as currently in the USA the car manufacturers have turned to ventilators and masks). In any event the manufacturing industries which supplied or spun off the car industry were mostly medium to small Australian owned business.

 

[The Voice]

I had friends working for 2 of the car factories. They were all given notice ages in advance that closing was in the works, so they did courses and strengthened and expanded their skill sets until closing day. 3 out of 4 went into new jobs straight away the 4th chose early retirement.

Nice anecdote but unfortunately the plural of an anecdote is anecdotes, not data.Proper studies conducted in SA and Victoria show that 50% of those workers over the age of 50 are un or under employed. The majority of all ages that did find alternative work were generally employed at lower wages or less hours or less secure jobs.

 

[Lingus]

Well that is the same thing. All countries that manufacture cars subsidise their car industry, including Germany, France, Japan, Korea and so on. The issue in Australia is the lack of leadership, foresight and toxic neo liberal economics. That the manufacturers were foreign owned is irrelevant as the manufacturing capacity remains on our soil ...

Amongst the dramas of 2013 - when Ford Australia and GM Holden both decided to chuck in the towel - was the fact that these two of three local manufacturers remained committed to building particular cars that people increasingly did not purchase. Toyota Australia was the only local manufacturer that had a decent customer base to support their business, and they remain Australia's Number 1 car company to this day despite the fact they were effectively forced to cease manufacturing at the same time as GM Holden in October 2017.

Fast forward to 2020 and while GM's global boss, Mary Barra, commits to a wholly electric and autonomous future, GM has also rationalised its continued existence outside of Europe to be almost exclusively based around the US, Chinese and South American markets. Nothing that the Australia Federal government (or any State governments) might have done post-2013 would have prevented the impending demise of GM Holden in 2020.

 

[stovo82]

Successive government policy failures of privatisation have lead to manufacturing being sold to foreign owners. Without manufacturing jobs, more people are forced to take on student debt and waste years studying for jobs in non-manufacturing sectors. Strong nations subsidise and protect their manufacturing sectors with subsidies, protectionist policies and tariffs. Many factory workers have been forced into taking early retirement because they are too old to learn skills in other fields. Factory worker with 20 to 30 years working in a factory is not going to pick up a new job as easily as a younger person who can adapt to change and learn new skills.

 

[The Voice]

Amongst the dramas of 2013 - when Ford Australia and GM Holden both decided to chuck in the towel - was the fact that these two of three local manufacturers remained committed to building particular cars that people increasingly did not purchase. Toyota Australia was the only local manufacturer that had a decent customer base to support their business, and they remain Australia's Number 1 car company to this day despite the fact they were effectively forced to cease manufacturing at the same time as GM Holden in October 2017.

Fast forward to 2020 and while GM's global boss, Mary Barra, commits to a wholly electric and autonomous future, GM has also rationalised its continued existence outside of Europe to be almost exclusively based around the US, Chinese and South American markets. Nothing that the Australia Federal government (or any State governments) might have done post-2013 would have prevented the impending demise of GM Holden in 2020.

While that may be the case with Holden due to GMs problems after the GFC, there were other options on how to apply the subsidy. For example you mention Toyota, they could have been incentivised to maintain a manufacturing base here, perhaps even taking over Holden's assets which to GM are sunk costs anyway. It doesn't have to be Toyota it could have been available to any car manufacturer that is willing to produce cars that meet the market fashions of the day. This is similar to what the UK did. Rather than let it's industry die, and it was dying by the 1970s, it enabled foreigners to take over all the formerly UK owned companies which were going to go under anyway and so retained their manufacturing base. Like I said we unfortunately lack strategic leadership in this country and today Australia is the least diversified developed economy which creates many risks of dependency in future years.

 

[Lingus]

While that may be the case with Holden due to GMs problems after the GFC, there were other options on how to apply the subsidy. For example you mention Toyota, they could have been incentivised to maintain a manufacturing base here, perhaps even taking over Holden's assets ... This is similar to what the UK did. Rather than let it's industry die, and it was dying by the 1970s, it enabled foreigners to take over all the formerly UK owned companies which were going to go under anyway and so retained their manufacturing base ...

By my recollection, in 2013 Toyota Australia wanted to continue manufacturing in Australia ... surprisingly to some people, Toyota was more proud of its Australian operations than either of those two other Detroit-based companies. Australia was the first country outside of Japan for Toyota to try its hand at manufacturing, back in 1963 ... it was doing well in 2013 and had a strong export regime happening out of its Altona factory in Victoria, but it could not survive as a sole manufacturer because the support network of Australian independent parts suppliers could not guarantee their own survival if servicing only one local vehicle manufacturer. Reluctantly, Toyota announced in February 2014 that they too would cease Australian manufacturing in October 2017.

As for the UK, I didn't really follow their tide of manufacturing woes ... other than being aware of the gathering of historical brands into government collectives of what was BMC and later Leyland, I seem to recall the UK government made it difficult for foreign brands to infiltrate their market, so Japanese and European companies entered into agreements with the British automotive entities ... and hence there began appearing weird creations built in the UK, such as Honda cars adorned with Triumph and Rover badges.

As for the notion of Toyota taking over Holden : I remember when the Australian Federal (Labor) government forced rationalisation of the local automotive industry in the late 1980s, whereby Holden formed an alliance with Toyota (and Ford formed an alliance with Nissan) ... not many consumers were interested in buying the Toyota Lexcen (based on the Holden Commodore) and not many consumers were interested in buying the Holden Nova and Apollo (based on the Toyota Corolla and Camry). Subsequently, Nissan ceased Australian manufacturing in 1992, and after a shaky run and last ditch effort (with the oddly named '380' sedan), Mitsubishi Motors Australia also bowed out in 2008.

 

[sdm85]

but how do we compete?
a few of my friends have moved manafacturing to china and the philippines.
they did it with a heavy heart, but they cannot compete and pay aussie wages.
maybe we could start manufacturing here and put big tariffs on imports for the same items.
see how that goes

We simply can't compete. People have very short memories when it comes to their bank account.

I think there will be a push towards significant manufacturing in India, Thailand etc rather than sticking with China.

 

[active8s]

People want to make more profit and the public wants to pay less. I don't see this changing anytime soon. So long as workers in Australia want to be paid a decent wage or cost of living miraculously drops manufacturing in Australia is too expensive.

If your iPhone already costs 2k in China wtf is it going to cost here?

 

[XLPP]

People want to make more profit and the public wants to pay less. I don't see this changing anytime soon. So long as workers in Australia want to be paid a decent wage or cost of living miraculously drops manufacturing in Australia is too expensive.

If your iPhone already costs 2k in China wtf is it going to cost here?

Absolutely spot on. China is back at work and will be consuming quicker than Trumpville. Australia exports products all round the world, much of which is essential like food and minerals. That is a fact of nature that we win from.

Why would any sensible business owner take on a sector that other countries are far better placed to service and profit from.

 

[The Voice]

By my recollection, in 2013 Toyota Australia wanted to continue manufacturing in Australia ... surprisingly to some people, Toyota was more proud of its Australian operations than either of those two other Detroit-based companies. Australia was the first country outside of Japan for Toyota to try its hand at manufacturing, back in 1963 ... it was doing well in 2013 and had a strong export regime happening out of its Altona factory in Victoria, but it could not survive as a sole manufacturer because the support network of Australian independent parts suppliers could not guarantee their own survival if servicing only one local vehicle manufacturer. Reluctantly, Toyota announced in February 2014 that they too would cease Australian manufacturing in October 2017.

Toyota was not subsidised to the extent that Holden and Ford were. It did not have to be the case that Toyota would be the only car manufacturer in Australia either. It was short sightendness of government that it did not make the assistance package contestable for any overseas manufacturer to take the place of Holden or Ford.

As for the UK, I didn't really follow their tide of manufacturing woes ... other than being aware of the gathering of historical brands into government collectives of what was BMC and later Leyland, I seem to recall the UK government made it difficult for foreign brands to infiltrate their market, so Japanese and European companies entered into agreements with the British automotive entities ... and hence there began appearing weird creations built in the UK, such as Honda cars adorned with Triumph and Rover badges.

Those were earlier attempts that failed, eg nationalisation of the car industry in the 60s and 70s and collaboration with foreign companies in the 80s/90s. It finally dawned on the UK government (and industry) that if it was to have a domestic car manufacturing industry at all, it should allow foreign ownership. That is what happened and the car industry there blossomed through this century.

As for the notion of Toyota taking over Holden : I remember when the Australian Federal (Labor) government forced rationalisation of the local automotive industry in the late 1980s, whereby Holden formed an alliance with Toyota (and Ford formed an alliance with Nissan) ... not many consumers were interested in buying the Toyota Lexcen (based on the Holden Commodore) and not many consumers were interested in buying the Holden Nova and Apollo (based on the Toyota Corolla and Camry). Subsequently, Nissan ceased Australian manufacturing in 1992, and after a shaky run and last ditch effort (with the oddly named '380' sedan), Mitsubishi Motors Australia also bowed out in 2008.

I'm not talking about rebadged differentiation which was part of the Button car plan in the 80s. Toyota or any other car manufacturer that wanted a crack could have taken over Holden and Ford's production facilities and start making certain models over here (for example some of the popular SUV lines). The assets could have been acquired cheaply or free (given the sunk costs of the assets and redundancy cost savings for Holden and Ford). Instead, all that capacity, expertise and supply chains built up over 100 years will be lost forever and unlikely to ever be built up again. It is tragic really.

 

[mastandslav]

The government did not close them down. They just stopped sinking our tax $ into a failing industry that was not even Australian owned.

It was actually the greed of the unions that shut them down.

 

[Madmax1700]

Take a leaf out of the Japanese strategy