WA Porter has made enough amendments to get this bill passed

[Claudia Michaels]

I'm Jo/Joanna (working name Claudia), the author of the Submission put in by Maryanne and myself. My background is studying law and I've worked in the sex industry on and off for eight years in brothels, for escort agencies and privately. I attended the meetings with Maryanne with politicians back after the Submission was put in during August and I also have previous involvement in the political sphere.

I am in the process of going through the amended Bill with a fine tooth comb and will make my notes on it over the next 24 hours.

I am flying to Perth tomorrow morning to arrive at 7:30am and I will be available to attend the private girls' meeting on Tuesday and any and all meetings with politicians.

The first arena to target is the Lower House because the Bill has to pass through there first. The Liberals need a majority vote of 30 to get the Bill through. The ALP has 26 members and is voting against the Bill en-blac regardless of amendments. So we need four of the Nationals, Independents and/or Liberals to get on side and vote against.

The Nationals will vote en-blac. They are really crucial. Maryanne is right in that enough amendments have been made to convince them that the legislation is acceptable. However, they are sensible and open to opinion and discussion so there is a chance of convincing them otherwise. The Nationals are Vincent Catania, Brendon Grylls, Terry Redman and Terry Waldron. The first two Nationals encompass the mining regions and therefore there is a strong argument to be put to them that services for men in those areas are crucial.

The Independents are Elizabeth Constable, Janet Woollard, Adele Carles and Jim Bowler. There is a chance of convincing Elizabeth Constable and Adele Carles, though I would guess not with Janet Woollard, who is conservative, and Jim Bowler, who seems only concerned with the Kalgoorlie brothels and this concession has been provided for by Christian Porter precisely to get his vote.

I will cover the legislation and ways to attack it in more detail once I have finished my analysis and also the approach to politicians at the meeting on Tuesday. In the meantime, if someone could PM me details of where the meeting is or Maryanne has my details. You are also welcome to PM about anything else, but I am racing around like a madwoman to organise myself with this so may not reply quickly.

It is also important to note that we are operating on an extremely tight deadline if the Bill is to be voted on in the next 10-14 days (ie fortnight). Meetings should be arranged on Monday for later in the week or even if they can be arranged for Monday itself. I will endeavour to do some work on that on Monday myself.

 

[svengali]

Just a thought.

There have been a few letters to the editor in the "West" mentioning the "religious right" meaning those handful of God-Botherers who seem to wield influence far beyond that which their numbers justify. In general, these individuals, including Mr Porter seem to be intent on forcing religious doctrines onto the rest of us. Now I don't know about you but it worries the hell out of me that Churches, despite losing members faster than Julia loses voter support, can still influence Parliament.

Surely it is time we sent a clear message to all pollies that they can worship whoever or whatever they like in their own time but we don't want their religious ideals imposed on us via legislation. It is absurd that free and easy and tolerant people like us West Australians are being led by such a wowserish bunch of old women. How did this happen?

How about we all write letters to the editor or to our local members condemning the religious bigots and demanding that they leave their religion at home? If they see that their wowserism is costing them voter support it may just encourage them to pull their heads in.

 

[My_10incher]

Here is the link to the new Prostitution Bill 2011 -

The link is broken, so taken down

111 pages of absolute garbage!! haha

 

[Manuel]

Great statement ! Could not agree more ;D

Just a thought.

There have been a few letters to the editor in the "West" mentioning the "religious right" meaning those handful of God-Botherers who seem to wield influence far beyond that which their numbers justify. In general, these individuals, including Mr Porter seem to be intent on forcing religious doctrines onto the rest of us. Now I don't know about you but it worries the hell out of me that Churches, despite losing members faster than Julia loses voter support, can still influence Parliament.

Surely it is time we sent a clear message to all pollies that they can worship whoever or whatever they like in their own time but we don't want their religious ideals imposed on us via legislation. It is absurd that free and easy and tolerant people like us West Australians are being led by such a wowserish bunch of old women. How did this happen?

How about we all write letters to the editor or to our local members condemning the religious bigots and demanding that they leave their religion at home? If they see that their wowserism is costing them voter support it may just encourage them to pull their heads in.

 

[Manuel]

The West online from this afternoon
Porter makes pitch to backbenchers
Gareth Parker, The West Australian Updated November 5, 2011, 3:51 pm



Attorney-General Christian Porter has taken aim at the backbench conservatives opposed to his brothel laws, saying a vote against the State Government's Bill would result in the further unchecked growth of prostitution in WA.

A day after the tabling of his long-awaited Prostitution Bill was greeted by total opposition from Labor, Mr Porter made an appeal to the Christian Right MPs from his own party and undecided independents Janet Woollard and Adele Carles that his proposed regime improved on the current "laissez faire" approach.

Mr Porter said the current containment policy was clearly not working and provided police with no tools to respond to community complaints about brothels and escorts operating in suburban areas.

He said the Government believed that a portion of demand for prostitution services could be reduced if access to those services was made more difficult.

"If you have a system like we have at the moment, which is laissez faire, demand just continues to grow unabated," he said. "There's nothing to stop a person acting as a prostitute and nothing to stop a person using the services of a prostitute. You've got no fear of any reprisal or significant policing.

"The great irony is that several of the people who may be thinking about voting against this on religious grounds want less, rather than more prostitution.

"What they will end up with is the present situation where prostitution will just grow unabated over time.

"What they will miss out on is a system which at least gives you a fighting chance of decreasing the demand and supply of prostitutes."

Shadow attorney-general John Quigley said that despite the Bill's "noble intentions", its explicit prohibition of escorts would only drive more sex workers underground. "This presents a problem for the workers and the community as a whole," he said.

"By restricting the number of areas and number of licences, it is also logical we will see the appearance of a number of mega-brothels which will concentrate the power in the hands of a few.

Mr Quigley said the Bill would effectively criminalise any paid-for sexual encounter that did not take place in a licensed brothel, a situation he described as "bizarre".
'There's nothing to stop a person acting as a prostitute and nothing to stop a person using the services of a prostitute.'" Attorney-General *Christian Porter *

 

[AlexandraSilk]

Just a thought.
How about we all write letters to the editor or to our local members condemning the religious bigots and demanding that they leave their religion at home? If they see that their wowserism is costing them voter support it may just encourage them to pull their heads in.

Why not put pen to paper gentlemen and write to ministers? It could be anonymously.
It seems a loud minority will create chaos because of the silent majority.

 

[Claudia Michaels]

Here is the link to the new Prostitution Bill 2011 -

The link is broken, so taken down

111 pages of absolute garbage!! haha

This is NOT the latest version. This was the original Green Bill for public comment back in June/July. It has now been amended.

 

[Fudd]

.....a copy of the Green Bill and a 1 page summary of the changes can be found at the foot of this website.

The link is broken, so taken down

Fudd

 

[svengali]

Why not put pen to paper gentlemen and write to ministers? It could be anonymously.
It seems a loud minority will create chaos because of the silent majority.

Yes, even better but by all means sign your name to it - anonymous letters tend to be filed in that round file on the floor. There is also talkback radio if anyone has a good speaking voice.

The main thing is to stay on-message as Kevin would say. Let the pollies know that we will not stand for them ramming their religious views down our throats by way of legislation.

The only way to beat a noisy minority is to become part of an even noisier minority. Barnett's hold on power is not that strong and he won't want this issue taking up too much oxygen this close to an election.

 

[hot_stuff_900]

We have good sex workers and we have bad sex workers. It is the bad sex workers that need to be eliminated. A consequence of the bad sex workers actions has forced the government and police to take action in the best interests of the community.

Bad sex workers are notorious for false advertising, stealing from their clients, using threats of violence, staying illegally in this country, extortion against their clients and other crimes are perpetrated by the bad sex workers.

Great to see the Liberal National Party WA State government taking affirmative action to weed out the bad sex workers. In the long run sex workers, clients and the community as a whole will all be better off with these new sex law reforms.

 

[hot_stuff_900]

Prostitution is seen by the conservative Right as a last resort lifestyle choice for people who have serious problems in their lives. Reform the lives of sex workers to get them out of the destructive lifestyle of prostitution: through education, rehabilitation and government intervention.

Seriously, who wants their daughter, sister, mother, etc involved in the life destroying lifestyle of prostitution?

 

[RICHIE2012]

Mary-Anne
I wish all decent working ladies everything of the best in this matter.
The couple who I have met in Perth are excellent operators and really nice individuals and it is sad that their livelihoods may be under threat and the pleasure they bring to their clients denied.The message has to get through that it is the new flood of suburban "operators" that need to be controlled and not those who conduct themselves professionally in all respects and with due regard to hygiene etc. Also where is the Gillard government's Immigration Department in relation to all the very young "students" from Asia who flood our newspaper pages and sites like "Beautiful Companions".

Vanessa comes across as a very logical person who can express herself well and who has the potential to make a good impression. Just one point though, without over pandering to the so called "conservative and/or bible" mentalities, care must be taken to remain rational and balanced in presenting arguments and not to become abusive or hostile - or else any tenuous credibility may be lost.

I will try in my own way to get the message across, namely that the problem is not with the responsible escorts/working ladies who maintain good standards and keep away from the public eye - it lies with those who exploit and abuse others and would turn our beautify Perth into another diseased and grimy Bangkok.

Good luck girls!!

 

[RICHIE2012]

Prostitution is seen by the conservative Right as a last resort lifestyle choice for people who have serious problems in their lives. Reform the lives of sex workers to get them out of the destructive lifestyle of prostitution: through education, rehabilitation and government intervention.

Seriously, who wants their daughter, sister, mother, etc involved in the life destroying lifestyle of prostitution?

Hello Hot Stuff - I have noted your posts and fully accept that we are all entitled to our own opinions. However, where is there a place in your argument for those girls who operate at a truly professional level and who actually enjoy their work and the rewards it brings - both monetary and otherwise?

 

[Fudd]

...Yes, even better but by all means sign your name to it - anonymous letters tend to be filed in that round file on the floor...

....well, I've just submitted a letter to The West.....and signed my name to it.

Fudd

 

[Sensual ~ Vanessa]

RICHIE2012 - agreed, we definately need to keep a balance
when discussing this issue. I'm not sure that I've taken a tone
in anyway except passion for the cause
If I have caused any offence, its not intended!

Fudd - Go you!! Thank you and to everyone who's speaking up
and presenting their view in support of the industry to letters to
the editor and to politicians

Saige - have you decided on a location, it'd be great to know
soon, so I can plan tomorrow my travel and bookings, Thanks x

Have to say, after a busy day yesterday - I can say the demand
is alive and well in Perth.

 

[Claudia Michaels]

I've now read the Amended Bill. It is actually far worse than the original version. The serious issues have not been addressed and loopholes have been closed. The amendments that are made together work to the detriment of prostitutes completely and all but shut down the legitimate part of the industry. The supposed positive changes on closer reading are just spin designed to mislead those with concerns into thinking that problems have been rectified.

- The definition has not been amended. It technically catches any encounter where one party pays for things (the reward) and they have sex afterward. It also requires physical contact and therefore leaves loopholes with respect to visual stimulation and fetishes.

- Escorting is made illegal. This is done via a three-fold mechanism. First, it requires that any self-employed prostitute or larger prostitution business will have to nominate and have approved their place of work and can only perform their service at that approved place. This makes it illegal for the prostitute to go elsewhere and perform the service. Second, it requires that a client must only participate in the act if they know the place is approved as per what is on the license. This makes it illegal for a client to call a girl to their premise. Third, they have incorporated in the definition of public place establishments such as hotels.

- Prostitutes who wish to work privately will still be required to obtain a self-employed prostitute's license. In order to do this they will need to, amongst other things, nominate their place of business and demonstrate that it is not in a residential area and that they have local government approval to operate there. Essentially they will need to own the premise, although the legislation is a bit ambiguous as to whether they could use a premise with the permission of the owner.

- No mobile telephone numbers will be allowed in advertisements, which means a landline must be used, which presents a security risk for any self-employed prostitute.

- Prostitutes who want to work in brothels only no longer have to obtain a license and can simply have all their details recorded by the brothel operator to ensure they comply with working requirements. However, these prostitutes can alternatively have a general prostitute license so as not to have to have their details recorded by the brothel operator. Either way identification details will exist and can be accessed by the Department of Racing, Gaming & Liquor and a police officer of any rank.

- Prostitutes, regardless of whether self-employed or general, can only be either an Australian citizen or permanent resident of Australia; they have maintained that no person on a Working Visa or Student Visa can work as a prostitute.

- Prostitutes who work for a brothel must either be an employee or enter into a contract of services. This is impractical given the different services offered by different prostitutes and the fact that in this industry nearly every client is unique and any judgement about whether or not a prostitute wishes to see a client is made on the spot. How all of this is going to be covered in a series of individual contracts is beyond me. For example, a prostitute may provide anal, but it may be dependent on the size of the client. How is that incorporated?

- Anyone working as a prostitute must still be an Australian citizen or permanent resident of Australia.

- There has been no change to the privacy issues associated with the Register. The information can be accessed by members of the Department and police officers with little justification. There are no significant checks and balances or penalties to prevent them from doing so.

- There has been no change to the powers of enforcement officials. They can still go onto any premise they reasonably suspect of being a prostitution business and search anyone and anything, with reasonable suspicion not defined and no requirement of a suspicion of illegality. They can also effectively stop anyone in the street they suspect of thinking about engaging in act of prostitution, such as a man and woman behaving flirtatiously. This leaves open the door to harassment and intimidation, not to mention essentially getting 'stop, search and detain' laws in through the back door.

- There are no checks and balances on the powers of authority, such as the Minister, Police Commissioner, CEO of the Department or Governor.

- The clauses related to display of license remain the same. It must be clearly visible to anyone upon entering the business, whether it is a brothel or the premise of a self-employed prostitute, which means permanently in full display.

- The size of brothels is no longer limited by legislation but will be determined on a license by license basis.

- Operators are no longer limited to one brothel, but can, if they have been operating successfully, apply for up to three licenses in total.

- There will be a limited number of licenses available. This will be in the regulations so nobody knows at this stage how many this will be.

- The controls on location of prostitution businesses are much tighter. There will be NO prostitution businesses in residential areas. If one exists and an area subsequently becomes residential, that business can only continue to operate until the current license expires and will not have an option for renewal. Prostitution business that wish to operate in non-residential areas will be subject to consideration about the number of dwellings in the area. If a prostitution business in a non-residential area exists before circumstances of the area change, they may be allowed a license renewal, but this is not guaranteed.

- Distance measurement to protected places is clarified and stricter.

- Prostitution businesses in operation currently may be given an exception, but the controls on this are again tighter. Local government will now have to agree. They also remain subject to being in operation prior to 6 September 2008 and any affected parties in the surrounding area having no issues. They can only obtain a license for 18 months, with no comments on how any such renewal might work, which likely means that this is just a 'grace' period and that subsequently the rest of the legislation will apply and many of them will not be granted further licenses.

- The issue of provision of 'a' sheath by prostitution businesses has been changed to a 'sufficient quantity', the one positive health and safety improvement.

- The 'health and safety management plan' that all brothels and self-employed prostitutes will have to provide in order to obtain a license is window dressing for publicity. There is no further explanation of what it entails or should be incorporated and no substance.

- That the Prostitution Account will be used to provide information and support to workers wishing to get out of the industry is spin. This Account will primarily be used for the administration and enforcement of the legislation, with the information and support a throwaway sub-part.

- There is nothing in the legislation to protect prostitutes working for a brothel in terms of their self-determination of the clients they will see, the services they will provide or the percentage of the money they will be given.

Anyone associated with the industry is at risk of their identity being exposed and being subject to harassment and intimidation by enforcement officials.

The industry will likely end up consisting of a few mega brothels run by a few individuals. This will result in a concentration of power. Anyone wishing to work as a prostitute will be forced to work at one of these premises, placing prostitutes at the mercy of the operators. With such an over-supply of prostitutes and no protection for prostitutes' rights, operators will be able to make demands and write their own rules. This creates a likely scenario of greedy operators exploiting vulnerable individuals.

The outcome of this will be to driver the industry underground to avoid registration and working in stressful brothels. This ultimately means more clandestine residential operations. It will also mean that the legitimate part of the industry will be populated by the undesirable elements the government is trying to eliminate - power hungry operators and desperate prostitutes.

 

[hot_stuff_900]

Hello Hot Stuff - I have noted your posts and fully accept that we are all entitled to our own opinions. However, where is there a place in your argument for those girls who operate at a truly professional level and who actually enjoy their work and the rewards it brings - both monetary and otherwise?

The minority of sex workers are high class sophisticated sex workers that enjoy their work and deliver good services to their clients.

The majority of sex workers do not like their work and they have possibly been forced into sex work due to financial problems, drug/substance abuse issues or coerced by pimps or criminal organisations.

 

[sabrina19]

Have to say I like my work and find it very rewarding.ThanksFudd simply subperbxx

 

[Fudd]

The minority of sex workers are high class sophisticated sex workers that enjoy their work and deliver good services to their clients.

The majority of sex workers do not like their work and they have possibly been forced into sex work due to financial problems, drug/substance abuse issues or coerced by pimps or criminal organisations.

....and your analysis is qualified how?????......where did you get the figures to substantiate this claim???

 

[RICHIE2012]

RICHIE2012 - agreed, we definately need to keep a balance
when discussing this issue. I'm not sure that I've taken a tone
in anyway except passion for the cause
If I have caused any offence, its not intended!

Hey Vanessa - sorry no offense caused or taken!! I really like your passion but want to help you by emphasizing that when on THEIR turf, you will need to keep a handle on language and emotion. The only weapon the W/L cause has is logic and those pressing that case need to keep that concept in clear sight. If you let emotions drop your guard, the eyes of the "pollie" you speak to are likely to immediately glaze over as they will cast you into the classic, and very wrong, stereotype.

By the way, I have read Sienna's long disposition - she, you and the good service providers like you, deserve to be treated fairly. Good luck, girl!!
:brave:

 

[sabrina19]

Ouch looks like woollard is going to vote for the bill abc reporting bill may pass read this
Prostitution bill now expected to pass - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[RICHIE2012]

Hey - I have just read Claudia's post of today wherein she has summarised the bill before parliament - great job Claudia, you are to be commended on a clear and concise summary. All those W/L out there and others who are giving this matter consideration should have a look at the summary so as to achieve and understanding of the confronting issues at hand.

 

[The One]

I read the letters to the editor in last Saturdays 'West', they were great and it was good to see them published.
The argument was well articulated and showed the authors to be the educated, worldly people they are.
This is exactly what is needed, to show the Govt that WL's are not all drug addicted.
As Svengali states, unfortunately any anonymous letter are usually filed in the bin. The need to remain anonymous for some people is going to be the biggest hurdle.
I wonder if there is any type of survey that can be done to show that the men who use the services of a WL are 'normal', hard working, decent members of society?? Just a thought...

 

[RICHIE2012]

The One and Svengali's comments about anonymity are very apt. I count myself as one of those normal, decent hardworking members of society. Regrettably, there will be many like me who can not approach this matter in the open because of the personal implications that would follow. It is all so unfair and therefore so frustrating.

 

[Sensual ~ Vanessa]

Is possible to do an online survey ? Would that hold any value,
maybe something similar to the profile form, Saige constructed ?

In the last 24hrs I have spoken to many worker's and clients about
this proposal and the implications it will have and there are
many who haven't fully comprehended the impact it will have
on the industry.
Keep talking about it ! (If you can, I understand, it can be hard in
some circles to discuss this issue without judgement)
But if you can - please do !!

 

[AmyMonroe]

What about civil liberties groups, groups for the disabled? Anyone approaching them to help with the lobbying?

 

[Sensual ~ Vanessa]

Good point Amy. I haven't personally approached any of them.
Will look into it

 

[AmyMonroe]

What about also getting some of the sugar daddy sites in Australia on board, as this Bill will also affect them - being a reward based area for sex

Is there any mention of what OH&S the sex industry will obtain?

 

[AlexandraSilk]

It would be wonderful if the politicians joined the site and read this thread and those associated with the bill.
Perhaps it would broaden their viewpoint on WL's and the gentlemen who see them.

 

[Saige]

There really good OHS guiidelines set up in WA..if you want a copy Amy email me and If you would like a copy xx