Outing these woman online is disgusting

[Kitty]

While I agree that unsafe practises should be avoided at all costs, I think that outing these women online is a disgusting way to go about it. If a provider has to resort to putting her own life at risk to make a living, then she is already in a dire situation without turning her into a criminal as well.

 

[Dallas]

While I agree that unsafe practises should be avoided at all costs, I think that outing these women online is a disgusting way to go about it. If a provider has to resort to putting her own life at risk to make a living, then she is already in a dire situation without turning her into a criminal as well.

I'd been thinking along these lines but I was wondering if there was something I hadn't considered. I think much of the blame should go to the clients for wanting it, if they were thinking with their brains then the girls wouldn't even get this opportunity.

 

[Mrs Langtrees]

Hi Kitty I have made your post into its own thread, I think you have only read a bit of what is going on and made a judgement. How does it make them a criminal, the authorizes could only prosecute the actual person writing the advert, do you think the majority of the ladies are writing their own adds, I don't think so in fact I know so.

A member called me today to tell me that when he visits these little suburbia parlous that when he goes for a massage he is given a card with three to four extra's, the majority have the 4th extra as natural sex for $100

The ladies can speak no English at all except a few phrases like bad boy and good boy.

He said the norm in a Asian parlour is they go for the dick first if you put your hand over your dick that indicates you want to use a condom, he said for French you have to insist on using a condom and when you do insist and she understands what you want she smiles and goes good boy very good boy.

This tells me that she appreciates him wanting protection but she is in a situation where the boss tells her what she can and can't do.

Do you think if we can get the authorities motivated that they will be after the girl, I personally don't think so, in fact after the 100 police raid in Darwin 8 weeks ago by federal police I know so.

My understanding of politics is the politicians will move this to health very quickly, health will not be about prosecution they will be about education and if the government gives them the funds to do something about it, the forum will be a useful starting point and save them and our government thousands of our tax dollars.

I would like you to read all the threads in this section and use the new emotion buttons to disagree and don’t like if it is your opinion. The new emotion buttons are at the bottom of all posts you need to hover your mouse in the right bottom corner to see them scroll across and they will give you your choices.

I hope you come back and keep posting as every one’s opinion is important.

 

[Kitty]

Hi Kitty I have made your post into its own thread, I think you have only read a bit of what is going on and made a judgement. How does it make them a criminal, the authorizes could only prosecute the actual person writing the advert, do you think the majority of the ladies are writing their own adds, I don't think so in fact I know so.

A member called me today to tell me that when he visits these little suburbia parlous that when he goes for a massage he is given a card with three to four extra's, the majority have the 4th extra as natural sex for $100

The ladies can speak no English at all except a few phrases like bad boy and good boy.

He said the norm in a Asian parlour is they go for the dick first if you put your hand over your dick that indicates you want to use a condom, he said for French you have to insist on using a condom and when you do insist and she understands what you want she smiles and goes good boy very good boy.

This tells me that she appreciates him wanting protection but she is in a situation where the boss tells her what she can and can't do.

Do you think if we can get the authorities motivated that they will be after the girl, I personally don't think so, in fact after the 100 police raid in Darwin 8 weeks ago by federal police I know so.

My understanding of politics is the politicians will move this to health very quickly, health will not be about prosecution they will be about education and if the government gives them the funds to do something about it, the forum will be a useful starting point and save them and our government thousands of our tax dollars.

I would like you to read all the threads in this section and use the new emotion buttons to disagree and don’t like if it is your opinion. The new emotion buttons are at the bottom of all posts you need to hover your mouse in the right bottom corner to see them scroll across and they will give you your choices.

I hope you come back and keep posting as every one’s opinion is important.

I have indeed read the entirety of the threads Maryanne, and while trafficking of sex workers is illegal and abhorrent, making their details public is immoral and only promotes the dehumanisation of people who may well be in a position where they don't have a lot of options.

If this is where it ends then all well and good, but I can see this heading in a very negative direction where girls who do offer unprotected services are persecuted and driven to more drastic measures to earn money than they already are.

 

[Ginger Spice]

My opinion.


This is disgusting. I can't believe how judgemental some of these posts are as well. It is one thing to not only be "outing" these poor woman but to say they are "disgusting" etc is taken it above and beyond. I have never been so ashamed of the forum then how I am now.

Who is this benefiting? What is it you are trying to achieve? Does it make you feel good and superior knowing that all your girls are doing the right thing?

Unlike other posters though I do not give a shit, why the hell would I care what another woman does with her body? The fact these ladies offer services I would never even think about offering doesn't make it any more my business then anyone else's.

You may ask, but aren't you worried about the risks these ladies are putting you in?

No, because I know I do everything in my power to make sure my services are as safe as they can be. From using condoms for oral and sex to using dental dams just for ball licking , finger cots for fingering and gloves for anal play/strap on services. I will only do lesbian doubles with girls who I am close to and know they use the same precautions as myself and they can take comfort in knowing I hand my full health check results in when they are due.

I think something worth mentioning as well is health checks. Are new girls being shown how to perform a thorough health check? I know I have failed clients that have seen girls just before me because I am thorough with mine, if clients have bumps I have a torch that lets me see them better, as well as knowing what I am looking for. Whenever I am unsure I will get a second opinion from someone I trust (I do not want a receptionist to do this) if they too are unsure then the client is refused. I know I have had to show girls who have been in the industry for a short time how to perform a health check. I have also seen new girls not even do a health check, not on purpose but from lack of knowledge. All new girls entering the industry should be shown (more then once) how to do this, not just given a red book. This will be great to incorporate into Langtrees introductions?

Anyway that's my two cents worth.

 

[Mrs Langtrees]

Ginger you are missing the point, Kitty is saying my action of publishing the posts is disgusting, now I don't believe for one minute that she had read all the threads before I was online when I noticed Kitty enter the forum and she didn't have time to absorb the point we are trying to make.
What is disgusting putting up the adverts that are already available to the public on the web. I respect any ones right to have a different opinion to me, but they need to also respect my right and both agree to differ. I am pleased that someone has posted the argument from another point of view, that is what an open forum is about.
What I don't see is Kitty's solution to this problem do we just turn a blind eye whilst 20% of our industry ruin the chance to have any pride in what we do. Do we sit back and let these ladies be forced to have unsafe sex because their boss said its what we do in Australia?
Opinion is good, coming up with solutions is better.
Ginger I found your post very selfish. If a child was lying on the road hurt would you not stop to lend a hand.

 

[Ginger Spice]

I do not believe my post was selfish at all. However I have had my say and will leave it at that. I am smart enough to know not to argue with you.

 

[MrBig]

Do we sit back and let these ladies be forced to have unsafe sex because their boss said its what we do in Australia?

How do you know which are forced and which happily provide the extras and may already have been doing so in their country of origin?

 

[sparky]

Ginger I found your post very selfish. If a child was lying on the road hurt would you not stop to lend a hand.

That would probably depend if she had protection or not

 

[Mrs Langtrees]

The ones that smile and say good boy when you insist on using a condom, Mr Little.
Miss Ginger, I see all sex workers from all countries the good ones and the bad ones as my sisters, I do care when I see bad health practices ruin all our reputations. I have spent 30 years as a Madam and when I decided the sex industry was going to be my full time occupation I swore that I would make a difference and leave something behind.
I care for these woman, and the the forum is a powerful tool that can spread the education they need to make informed decisions.
First we have to wake up the members then the world to how vast this problem is, and then we have to find workable solutions.
The Asian cultures are much more law abiding than the Westerner in general. If a few madams or pimps got prosecuted the others would wake up and change their adverting practices.
These adverts are motivated by greed for a quick buck, I want to see them stopped, i do not want my grandsons reading adds like this as they grow older, there by thinking Sex without a condom must be safe, I see it on net all time.I want all kids protected by this sort of advertising, as I think most Adults would agree.
Please feel free to argue with me, good practice for when i stand for politics in 5 years time.Be open minded to see all sides of the coin, be honest with yourself and say what you think, not what you think someone wants you to say.Be yourself.

 

[Kitty]

Ginger you are missing the point, Kitty is saying my action of publishing the posts is disgusting, now I don't believe for one minute that she had read all the threads before I was online when I noticed Kitty enter the forum and she didn't have time to absorb the point we are trying to make.
What is disgusting putting up the adverts that are already available to the public on the web. I respect any ones right to have a different opinion to me, but they need to also respect my right and both agree to differ. I am pleased that someone has posted the argument from another point of view, that is what an open forum is about.
What I don't see is Kitty's solution to this problem do we just turn a blind eye whilst 20% of our industry ruin the chance to have any pride in what we do. Do we sit back and let these ladies be forced to have unsafe sex because their boss said its what we do in Australia?
Opinion is good, coming up with solutions is better.
Ginger I found your post very selfish. If a child was lying on the road hurt would you not stop to lend a hand.

Would you also say that it is morally correct to have your staff contacting working ladies on various online platforms, posing to be clients and asking for photos and if they perform natural services?

I support your safe sex campaign 100% Maryanne, and will continue to uphold the stringent standards that pertain to keeping myself and my clients safe. I also believe that education is key as I have stated before, whether that involves bringing in sex work advocates, health professionals and interpreters, helping these women to be safe rather than forcing them out of their only method of income.

However I cannot support this "war on unsafe sex" that you have proposed, not when your tactics include naming and shaming providers who are already in a terrible situation.

 

[MrBig]

Spread education so they can make informed decisions....... good
To excoriate those that don't comply by your views....... bad

 

[bushseeker]

I mean to say they are classic bait and switch
advertising a 23 yr old size 6 doing all natural. .... that actually is a 35 yr old size 12 that will speak no english when the rubber goes on and protests start... 35min for an hour booking

35 min of your life youll never get back

 

[Farm Boy 2]

I mean to say they are classic bait and switch
advertising a 23 yr old size 6 doing all natural. .... that actually is a 35 yr old size 12 that will speak no english when the rubber goes on and protests start... 35min for an hour booking

35 min of your life youll never get back

I am not sure that the rubber would go on Bushseeker and not Brave
(foolish) enough to try and find out .

 

[Mrs Langtrees]

"To excoriate those that don't comply by your views....... bad" I don't see it as excoriate.
formal
criticize (someone) severely.
"he excoriated the government for censorship"

I am not criticizing the individual all i am doing is collecting all the offending adverts so i can present to the authorities. I am doing it openly and honestly, should they feel that this may cause them problems and they change the adverts surely that is a win for them and a win for those that support me, and more importantly a win for the children of the future.

 

[Ginger Spice]

That would probably depend if she had protection or not

I have a first aid kit in both my cars. So I should be good to stop and lend a hand

 

[Ginger Spice]

Do you care for your own workers though? As if we were your sisters?

I don't understand this comment - Mary-Anne K

The ones that smile and say good boy when you insist on using a condom, Mr Little.
Miss Ginger, I see all sex workers from all countries the good ones and the bad ones as my sisters, I do care when I see bad health practices ruin all our reputations. I have spent 30 years as a Madam and when I decided the sex industry was going to be my full time occupation I swore that I would make a difference and leave something behind.
I care for these woman, and the the forum is a powerful tool that can spread the education they need to make informed decisions.
First we have to wake up the members then the world to how vast this problem is, and then we have to find workable solutions.
The Asian cultures are much more law abiding than the Westerner in general. If a few madams or pimps got prosecuted the others would wake up and change their adverting practices.
These adverts are motivated by greed for a quick buck, I want to see them stopped, i do not want my grandsons reading adds like this as they grow older, there by thinking Sex without a condom must be safe, I see it on net all time.I want all kids protected by this sort of advertising, as I think most Adults would agree.
Please feel free to argue with me, good practice for when i stand for politics in 5 years time.Be open minded to see all sides of the coin, be honest with yourself and say what you think, not what you think someone wants you to say.Be yourself.

 

[MrBig]

"To excoriate those that don't comply by your views....... bad" I don't see it as excoriate.
formal
criticize (someone) severely.
"he excoriated the government for censorship"

I am not criticizing the individual all i am doing is collecting all the offending adverts so i can present to the authorities. I am doing it openly and honestly, should they feel that this may cause them problems and they change the adverts surely that is a win for them and a win for those that support me, and more importantly a win for the children of the future.

Criticize is not the synonym I would have used. 1a or even 2 is closer. LOL

ex·co·ri·ate
(ĭk-skôr′ē-āt′)
tr.v. ex·co·ri·at·ed, ex·co·ri·at·ing, ex·co·ri·ates
1.
a. To censure strongly; denounce: "preparing to excoriate him for his insufficient preparations" (Neil Bascomb).
b. To criticize (something) harshly: "After excoriating the vapid culture of movie-star worship ... he's ended up at that trough" (Maureen Dowd).
2. To tear, scrape, or wear off (the skin).

 

[Aaron]

While I agree that unsafe practises should be avoided at all costs, I think that outing these women online is a disgusting way to go about it. If a provider has to resort to putting her own life at risk to make a living, then she is already in a dire situation without turning her into a criminal as well.

While I agree that unsafe practises should be avoided at all costs, I think that outing these women online is a disgusting way to go about it. If a provider has to resort to putting her own life at risk to make a living, then she is already in a dire situation without turning her into a criminal as well.

There is no "Outing" taking place at all. Mary-Anne and her team are simply compiling a list of providers who "Choose" to advertise Unsafe Practices.

I can understand the issue if there was a setup or promise of an extra $500 for Natural etc - but these are simply service providers who choose to Break the Law, risk not just their health, but the clients - as well as give our Industry a Bad Name.

It's great that Mary-Anne is such a strong advocate towards Safe Sex, and I personally can vouch for this as I only sat with her last week in Darwin as she met with the Deputy Director of the Northern Territory AIDS and Hepatitis Council to try and push for the promotion of safe sex education.

 

[Ginger Spice]

There is no "Outing" taking place at all. Mary-Anne and her team are simply compiling a list of providers who "Choose" to advertise Unsafe Practices.

I can understand the issue if there was a setup or promise of an extra $500 for Natural etc - but these are simply service providers who choose to Break the Law, risk not just their health, but the clients - as well as give our Industry a Bad Name.

It's great that Mary-Anne is such a strong advocate towards Safe Sex, and I personally can vouch for this as I only sat with her last week in Darwin as she met with the Deputy Director of the Northern Territory AIDS and Hepatitis Council to try and push for the promotion of safe sex education.

http://www.talkinsex.com/threads/porn-star-ass-to-mouth-dine-on-your-cum.46087/

http://www.talkinsex.com/threads/sandra-from-taiwan-offering-greek-no-condom-locanto-perth.44943/

These two posts are examples of how we are going about this wrong. Saying "disgusting" on top of outing them doesn't sit right with me.

Is there not something else we can do? Can we not contact them and offer our support?

Do these ladies know they have been "outed"?

 

[westy]

I'd suggest that as a provider you "out" yourself. when you advertise these services on any platform. Repeating the adds here doesn't "out" them. They're already out there.

 

[Dallas]

http://www.talkinsex.com/threads/porn-star-ass-to-mouth-dine-on-your-cum.46087/

http://www.talkinsex.com/threads/sandra-from-taiwan-offering-greek-no-condom-locanto-perth.44943/

These two posts are examples of how we are going about this wrong. Saying "disgusting" on top of outing them doesn't sit right with me.

Is there not something else we can do? Can we not contact them and offer our support?

Do these ladies know they have been "outed"?

I wondered why there isn't any blame attached to the clients as they're the ones who encourage it at the very least if not insist on it in some cases.

 

[Aaron]

Link is broken so has been taken down

These two posts are examples of how we are going about this wrong. Saying "disgusting" on top of outing them doesn't sit right with me.

Is there not something else we can do? Can we not contact them and offer our support?

Do these ladies know they have been "outed"?

I agree with you to an extent here Ginger.
However I feel its the opinions of the staff here personally, and maybe
this list should be kept Neutral on the initial post. What are your thoughts Mary-Anne?

 

[Mrs Langtrees]

I didn't make the title of this thread Kitty did should she like to change it she can send me a PM and I will intend to it straight away. There is a lot we can do I need you to make a separate thread on this Maybe call it Ways we can help.
Whatever we do that is positive is a step in the right direction to spreading the word Safe Sex Is great Sex and this message is not just for the Sex Industry this message is for the world.

 

[Sherry]

I actually think that outing the websites that allow ads with unsafe sex in the advertising would be maybe more effective. I don't understand why they don't go through the dialogue before they approve the ad and contact the advertiser to let them know they are not allowed to list unsafe sex on their website. When I was doing work on langtrees.com, that was one of the things Sue and Jason told me to look out for and remove from advertisers profiles. I would also SMS/email and politely explain that it was not allowed on our website.
I do agree with Kitty and Ginger and I and totally understand their concern. We don't want it turning into a witch hunt and I do know that is not MAK's intention. I also do see what Mary-Anne is trying to do and can see she is totally passionate about this (as are Ginger and Kitty), which is very admirable. I think the proper authorities simply need to know what is going on and websites and establishments promoting these practises should be the ones we are going after. Alice Wonderland and I were talking earlier and she was saying a guy told her that sometimes those services are offered to lure clients in. When they show up and book in they are told "No we don't provide that service". They have the money and that's that. Anyway this subject is an important one and I think everyone does agree that it is an issue that needs some serious attention.

 

[Sherry]

Link is broken so has been taken down



Link is broken so has been taken down

These two posts are examples of how we are going about this wrong. Saying "disgusting" on top of outing them doesn't sit right with me.

Is there not something else we can do? Can we not contact them and offer our support?

Do these ladies know they have been "outed"?

I must have missed something as I didn't see the post mentioned. But agree no need to add insult to injury. People need to keep some opinions to themselves. And agree with Aaron-best to keep it neutral as there are a lot of people that view our industry as disgusting and that is so far from the truth it's ridiculous.

 

[Keryn]

Unsafe practice is something I have mentioned in more than one thread previously. Personally I have no want to see any ladies worse off by doing whatever possible to make this industry safer for all involved. Regulating the industry nationally coupled with education & support would go a long way to solving issues highlighted by these adverts & the varied discussions they are driving.

 

[Miss Monique]

The problem with outing or forums in general is all can be very harmful to WL not just from a business point of view but the emotional wellbeing of ladies. Yes but openly offering such services in ads people can see that unsafe services are available. The naming and shaming in forums can be very damaging to a WL mental health. If you look at the reasons behind why woman do this sort of work, the high substance abuse and other addictions associated with WL you have a high population of vulnerable people. The sex industry has become increasingly competitive in some areas the market is over flooded with girls, I suspect this is part of the reason why such services are being offered to try attached more men through the door. I get the need to keep everyone safe from preventable STDs but just be mindful how talking in public forums can inpact on a WL mental health. Is outing here going to stop such behavior offering these services or better education more appropriate. If state laws are being breach then pass on relevant info to authorize if needed. The old saying if you have nothing nice to say don't say it comes to mind. I agree I have been shocked at some of the services that are now openly offered and with cracker there is no censorship anymore the only time is if ads are reported. It's free for all offer what you want.

 

[Mrs Langtrees]

That is the point Miss Monique Cracker is now owned by Backpage an american company that have a .au website.To do this they must follow Australian Law and are not doing so.
The only way we can get the health authorities and governments to address this is to show how vast the problem is which is why we are collecting the adverts.
We are not trying to oust the ladies, we are trying to protect them as most are unscrupulous pimps that are writing these adds without the ladies knowledge.
The amazing thing is the Australian Ladies are now advertising the same way to compete with them. We have to do something to stop this spreading further, if you have any ideas start a new thread.

 

[MrBig]

I have a question.
I see tough restrictions of advertising in the newspapers but have not found anything to restrict such advertising in social media or on the internet in general.

So is such advertising illegal?

Yes in most states this advertising is illegal, with penalties from $5000 to jail.-Mary-Anne K

Bait and switch advertising seems to be covered more broadly which makes it illegal to advertise unsafe practices when in fact they are not really on offer. I feel would be a big part of the problem. False advertising of the service provider (fake photos) and the false advertising of service available (throw everything in to entice someone to the premises).

Probably need a lawyer to plod through a lot of grey areas.