S
sexnut
What are peoples thought on this? No more flights from quantas
silverback54
Foundation Member
- Points
- 0
With my hol's so close I may not get to go.
- Points
- 5
The lock down is not surprising given that both Qantas & the unions have been unable to settle this dispute. Qantas obviously (and quite rightly) wants this matter brought to ahead as it has had a negative impact on its operations and customers. It will be interesting to see what Fair Work Aust decides.
It is also interesting to read that:
1. Qantas shares have fallen over the last 5 years from $5.60 to $1.50. I don't think that the current price reflects Qantas' value so there maybe an opportunity for a bargain here.
2. 96% of shareholders endorsed the CEO's pay increase. I think the CEO's pay rate maybe linked to company profits and, if so, the increase is understandable given that Qantas returned a $250M profit last year being more thatn double the $112M from the previous year.
3. Qantas executives receive a combined salary of around $55M annually whereas their counter parts at Singapore Airlines receive about half that amount.
4. Qantas' Chairman (not Alan Joyce the CEO) has a history of locking horns with the unions especially during his time with Rio Tinto. I'm wondering if this matter has also something to do with negating some of the union's influence.
5. I don't think that salaries are the issue here. Some staff, in particular pilots, are paid a lot more than their contemporaries in other airlines. I think the main point here is the issue of "job security", ie keeping jobs in Aust, and in this age of globalisation this is something that is difficult for a company to guarantee.
The sad thing about this mess is that our national brand is being tarnished. I just hope that Qantas doesn't go down the same path as Ansett.
Fudd
It is also interesting to read that:
1. Qantas shares have fallen over the last 5 years from $5.60 to $1.50. I don't think that the current price reflects Qantas' value so there maybe an opportunity for a bargain here.
2. 96% of shareholders endorsed the CEO's pay increase. I think the CEO's pay rate maybe linked to company profits and, if so, the increase is understandable given that Qantas returned a $250M profit last year being more thatn double the $112M from the previous year.
3. Qantas executives receive a combined salary of around $55M annually whereas their counter parts at Singapore Airlines receive about half that amount.
4. Qantas' Chairman (not Alan Joyce the CEO) has a history of locking horns with the unions especially during his time with Rio Tinto. I'm wondering if this matter has also something to do with negating some of the union's influence.
5. I don't think that salaries are the issue here. Some staff, in particular pilots, are paid a lot more than their contemporaries in other airlines. I think the main point here is the issue of "job security", ie keeping jobs in Aust, and in this age of globalisation this is something that is difficult for a company to guarantee.
The sad thing about this mess is that our national brand is being tarnished. I just hope that Qantas doesn't go down the same path as Ansett.
Fudd
Happy2
Legend Member
- Points
- 15
it used to be the union would throw in demand that was totally unpalatable to
management Knowing that the more reasonable requests would be met And the ambit
claim thrown out Both sides won Management were tough by not letting
the union win outrageous benefits and the union won by being gracious and withdrawing the outrageous claim in the interests of the companies future
In this case it seems the unions are following up ond there more hardnose claims
And as Fudd rightly stated Unfortunately job security is a thing of the past Even Public Servants have to look over their shoulders
And as an aside What is a Irishman doing screwing with unions I thought the Irish and Scots were meant to run the Unions Not tother way round
management Knowing that the more reasonable requests would be met And the ambit
claim thrown out Both sides won Management were tough by not letting
the union win outrageous benefits and the union won by being gracious and withdrawing the outrageous claim in the interests of the companies future
In this case it seems the unions are following up ond there more hardnose claims
And as Fudd rightly stated Unfortunately job security is a thing of the past Even Public Servants have to look over their shoulders
And as an aside What is a Irishman doing screwing with unions I thought the Irish and Scots were meant to run the Unions Not tother way round
- Points
- 4
Guess there`s always going to be a first time...
Never been with (A) VIRGIN before...
I agree that sometimes the unions expect too much but then when you read what the big bosses get paid, it`s no wonder that sometimes the simple worker wants a bit more of the cake.
Never been with (A) VIRGIN before...
I agree that sometimes the unions expect too much but then when you read what the big bosses get paid, it`s no wonder that sometimes the simple worker wants a bit more of the cake.
- Points
- 4
Didn`t see it but I can remember one year my big boss got $15 million inclusive of all his perks and whatever bonuses and all the workers got was an extra $50.
Given some huge profits some companies make, what are your thoughts on profit sharing incentives for the workers??
I know the share holder may get a little less but wouldn`t it make the worker want to work a bit harder??
Given some huge profits some companies make, what are your thoughts on profit sharing incentives for the workers??
I know the share holder may get a little less but wouldn`t it make the worker want to work a bit harder??
Happy2
Legend Member
- Points
- 15
Well big profits for big companies hits all the right buttons You know they get X $ while we only get a pittance But how many of us are share holders plenty! I would say because we
all or nearly all have super and shares make a good slice of their investment so surely big profits are good for our retirement
all or nearly all have super and shares make a good slice of their investment so surely big profits are good for our retirement
- Points
- 5
BB & H2 - when shareholders are not receiving dividends (or reduced dividends), a company's value (ie, the price of its shares) may take a hit. This is one of the reasons what Qantas shares have slipped over the years as no dividends have been paid to shareholders since 2009. Institutional investors (like super funds) are quick to dump shares if there are no returns to shareholders.
The banks are a prime example of this. To maintain its high share value, banks have had to ensure that it profits grow each year. To do that, they have put in place a strategy of fees and decreased services to maintain their profit margins. When you see the banks posting reduced profits, you will see a corresponding dip in their share price.
Fudd
The banks are a prime example of this. To maintain its high share value, banks have had to ensure that it profits grow each year. To do that, they have put in place a strategy of fees and decreased services to maintain their profit margins. When you see the banks posting reduced profits, you will see a corresponding dip in their share price.
Fudd
Happy2
Legend Member
- Points
- 15
Yep I totally get that Fudd
What I was thinking was the outcry when major Corps do make a massive profit
Many of us forget our super funds are linked meaning their profits help us in retirement
As you say I would hope my super fund hasnt been investing in QANTAS for the last few years
What I was thinking was the outcry when major Corps do make a massive profit
Many of us forget our super funds are linked meaning their profits help us in retirement
As you say I would hope my super fund hasnt been investing in QANTAS for the last few years
W
WRXXXR
The "simple worker" always wants more but they often aren't willing to put in more.
If a baggage handler is earning 75k a year (plus perks like dirt cheap flights) then that suggests to me they are getting a bit of the cake because let's face it, unloading and loading suitcases is a very basic job. And they still stuff up.
I've never flown with Qantas and never will.
P
Perth boy
Within Australia I will fly Qantas because the service is better than the other local air lines. However when I go overseas I never fly Qantas. The service is very poor compared to other air lines like Emirents, Thai, Malysian air etc.
Qantas needs to learn a lot from other air lines.
Qantas needs to learn a lot from other air lines.
F
Farm Boy
But which Airline did the Queen of Australia use?
Visiting prime ministers face being stranded in Perth because of the snap grounding of the Qantas fleet.
Commonwealth Heads Of Government Meeting media director Daniel Gleeson confirmed 17 heads of delegations had been booked to fly with Qantas and and that many had already been forced to make other travel arrangements.
Mr Gleeson would not confirm where the delegates were from but it has been reported Solomon Islands Prime Minister Danny Philip was among them.
Visiting prime ministers face being stranded in Perth because of the snap grounding of the Qantas fleet.
Commonwealth Heads Of Government Meeting media director Daniel Gleeson confirmed 17 heads of delegations had been booked to fly with Qantas and and that many had already been forced to make other travel arrangements.
Mr Gleeson would not confirm where the delegates were from but it has been reported Solomon Islands Prime Minister Danny Philip was among them.
- Points
- 5
junglejimbo
Gold Member
- Points
- 0
The QANTAS CEO and board of directors are the highest paid airline board in the world and all of them are also on the boards of other companies.
I note also is that all but one of them were on the board of ANSETT and also ALLCO the company that tried to a takeover bid on the airline just a few years and got shotdown bigtime
I note also is that all but one of them were on the board of ANSETT and also ALLCO the company that tried to a takeover bid on the airline just a few years and got shotdown bigtime
junglejimbo
Gold Member
- Points
- 0
....an RAAF VIP jet.
Fudd
The Queen fly in and out on a British Airways plane
Diamond Dog
Foundation Member
- Points
- 0
I read that the baggage handlers get $21 an hour.
Steve Jobs said when Apple focused on profit to the detriment of the product the company went downhill.
Qantas are doing the same. You cannot have a low cost low quality product and expect to be profitable.
Apple became the most profitable company in the world by focusing on quality products and investing in quality people.
Look at Qantas, for years now the service has been declining. There are an increasing amount of maintenance problems.
Geoff Dixon the previous CEO and the board nearly was successful in engineering a equity buyout of the company for the sake of improving profit. If that had happened then Qantas would have been smashed by the GFC.
Qantas need to focus on improving the product and not by saving a few bucks by relocating jobs off shore.
Steve Jobs said when Apple focused on profit to the detriment of the product the company went downhill.
Qantas are doing the same. You cannot have a low cost low quality product and expect to be profitable.
Apple became the most profitable company in the world by focusing on quality products and investing in quality people.
Look at Qantas, for years now the service has been declining. There are an increasing amount of maintenance problems.
Geoff Dixon the previous CEO and the board nearly was successful in engineering a equity buyout of the company for the sake of improving profit. If that had happened then Qantas would have been smashed by the GFC.
Qantas need to focus on improving the product and not by saving a few bucks by relocating jobs off shore.
Tannerone
Gold Member
- Points
- 0
Unfortunately I think that the shutdown will spell the end of Qantas. People are already being put off booking with them because of delays and uncertainties over the last few weeks. I think this will be the final straw, but of course all of the executives will receive massive payouts when it does collapse.
Anyone want to buy 108 cheap planes (with an average of 740 man-hours of outstanding maintenance each)?? Offers to A Joyce.
Anyone want to buy 108 cheap planes (with an average of 740 man-hours of outstanding maintenance each)?? Offers to A Joyce.
- Points
- 5
....within Aust, it was in this RAAF jet.
Happy2
Legend Member
- Points
- 15
Those G Force jump suits would crumple those colourful dresses wouldn't they Fudd?
F
Farm Boy
She never get the helmet over her Crown .
Happy2
Legend Member
- Points
- 15
Its informal FB she only wears a tiara on such occasions
Maxxy
Silver Member
- Points
- 0
Only time I fly QANTAS is when the company send me away on business (no options there) otherwise I now fly Virgin for domestic routes and either Singapore Airlines or Thai Airways for international flights. Reason I stopped flying QANTAS (international) in part goes back many years when they managed to stuff up a holiday I was on. As for their domestic service fro Hedland to Perth, over the last three years that when I had to fly them the flights were usually delayed and some of the food on this domestic leg I wouldn't feed to a dog.
In my view QANTAS are starting the big push in out sourcing their work and sending more of it to ASIA to cash in on the cheap labour.
In my view QANTAS are starting the big push in out sourcing their work and sending more of it to ASIA to cash in on the cheap labour.
- Points
- 0
Pretty ordinary ploy by big companies.
I suspect that there has been some industrial engineering by Qantas management.
They want to break the employment contracts they have with the industry unions.
Create a situation like they have done then under government approved authority Sack all current incumbents and re hire under an employment contract that saves them money.
Side step the unions completely.
I believe that the Baggage handlers are trying to stop the out sourcing of their jobs.
Q
I suspect that there has been some industrial engineering by Qantas management.
They want to break the employment contracts they have with the industry unions.
Create a situation like they have done then under government approved authority Sack all current incumbents and re hire under an employment contract that saves them money.
Side step the unions completely.
I believe that the Baggage handlers are trying to stop the out sourcing of their jobs.
Q
- Points
- 5
I have a slightly different view to that of Whilom. The way I see it, based on Qantas' media statements, my gut feeling is that Qantas may be looking at relocating its international flight service operations to Asia.
Joyce is on record as saying that the introduction of Jetstar, as a low cost budget carrier, was to redefine the Qantas group's postion domestically. This has been successful to a point. However, the international operation is not as competitive as it could be when measured against SIA, Cathay or MAS.
He (Joyce) has said that it is Qantas' vision to establish a competitive international arm of its business in Asia as another business arm of Qantas. However, the way I see it, this could also be a smoke screen for saying "we'll move Qantas' international flight operation services (ie, baggage handlers & caterers) to Asia and retain the corporate headquarters & domestic flight operation services in Aust" (so as to serve Qantas domestic & Jetstar).
If the above scenario is the case, then I don't think it's about replacing Aust baggage handlers & caterers with cheaper local staff but, rather, creating similar positions in Asia (to service Qantas international) and then terminate surplus baggage handlers & caterers in Aust.
Just a thought.
Fudd
Joyce is on record as saying that the introduction of Jetstar, as a low cost budget carrier, was to redefine the Qantas group's postion domestically. This has been successful to a point. However, the international operation is not as competitive as it could be when measured against SIA, Cathay or MAS.
He (Joyce) has said that it is Qantas' vision to establish a competitive international arm of its business in Asia as another business arm of Qantas. However, the way I see it, this could also be a smoke screen for saying "we'll move Qantas' international flight operation services (ie, baggage handlers & caterers) to Asia and retain the corporate headquarters & domestic flight operation services in Aust" (so as to serve Qantas domestic & Jetstar).
If the above scenario is the case, then I don't think it's about replacing Aust baggage handlers & caterers with cheaper local staff but, rather, creating similar positions in Asia (to service Qantas international) and then terminate surplus baggage handlers & caterers in Aust.
Just a thought.
Fudd
- Points
- 0
Fudd
It seems that we both have a feeling that there is a hidden agenda by QANTAS.
This scenario follows closely the Gillard governments handling of the processing of illegal asylum Seekers.
Gillard could not be seen to pander to Bob Browns requirement for On Shore processing.
I must admit that Ju Lier's puppet masters played Abbot perfectly.
Knowing Abbot would never agree on Malaysia and refusing Naru herself it became Abbots fault that the Bob Brown alternative was introduced.
Am I old and cynical??
Q
It seems that we both have a feeling that there is a hidden agenda by QANTAS.
This scenario follows closely the Gillard governments handling of the processing of illegal asylum Seekers.
Gillard could not be seen to pander to Bob Browns requirement for On Shore processing.
I must admit that Ju Lier's puppet masters played Abbot perfectly.
Knowing Abbot would never agree on Malaysia and refusing Naru herself it became Abbots fault that the Bob Brown alternative was introduced.
Am I old and cynical??
Q
C
crankmaster
I actually think the Qantas agenda is quite open its just one were not used to seeing. Normally a union will go on strike to close the company.
In this case the company closed itself to put pressure on the union??
In this case the company closed itself to put pressure on the union??
- Points
- 5
W
WRXXXR
Could it not be an excellent way of stopping the seemingly endless strikes? They'd know that fair work would get into the action and demand a resolution quick smart from both sides.
Union bosses are no better either. You think they are on struggle street whilst trying to "stick it the man"