How many rights do they have????

[billybones]

Just sipping my coffee and reading my news updates when I start to read how about 100 asylum seekers are refusing to go back to thier detention camp in Christmas Island.
If I can quote small pararaph from the article

"Many had spent more than a year waiting for security clearance after their refugee applications had been accepted and where depressed and at breaking point.

"The Department of Immigration will be to blame if there is any more violence or any self harm," Dr Daoud said"

How can be seen as the departments fault?
Sure, nobody likes to be locked up but then when they say that if there were back in thier own country there is no freedom and even the threat of death on a daily basis we are still giving them a better option. Sadly it all takes time.
Once allowed to stay here on permanent basis where do they expect to stay and how are they going to pay thier bills until they can establish themselves or is that for the government to fix as well??

I have worked with a people from all walks of life and don`t consider myself to be better then anybody else.

I just want everybody to be treated as equal.

 

[Alecia the Foxx]

I don't happen to believe that you can treat everybody as equal as everybody has different needs, and not everyone has had the same opportunities in life.

The same way that parents don't treat all their children exactly the same. I know parents who claim that they do, and their children are mighty unhappy, as they feel no consideration is being made toward their individual needs, it is all about being the same, and they know, even at a young age, that they are NOT the same.

I am not from Australia, of course, so maybe there are other considerations of which I am unaware, but I have no problems with asylum seekers, and I would understand their frustration at the slowness of the process.

 

[billybones]

Like I say I don`t have a problem with asylum seekers either but they do need to understand that these things can take time. They just need to be patient the same way as we all do.
From what I have read so I may be wrong.

They get free dental work straight away but even if you were a pensioner here , you would still have to wait and pay something towards it.

Once acccepted they are helped with thier housing needs even though the Homeswest housing wait list for others is about 4 years long.

School books and things associated with school are given. Others have to try to save as hard as they can to pay for thier son or daughters.


Let it be an even playing field, sure they may have come over with nothing but maybe once they start earning a decent wage they could have to pay the government back for helping them.
Something similar as HECS

 

[Fudd]

....they have the right to be fed, clothed and provided shelter until such time as they are processed.

In my opinion, if you're a "refugee" and you destroy your documents (ID, passport etc), in order to jump the queue, then you have no right to insist that you be processed in a period of time that suits you. With no documentation, it's not possible to adequately process, in a timely manner, the bona fides of someone who wants to claim asylum.

The government has a duty of care to protect its own citizens by repatriating those who are not legitimate refugees. If some of these so called refugees don't like that, then the answer is simple, put them on a plane back from where they came.

Fudd

 

[Alecia the Foxx]

"maybe once they start earning a decent wage they could have to pay the government back for helping them." Quote from Billy Bones.

Sure, maybe they could, but they can't get decent paying jobs while they are locked up, which is maybe part of the reason for their expressed frustration.

 

[fukmee]

They have the right to be treated like human beings rather than criminals. Processing does take time and it is understandable that they become frustrated. try to imagine yourself in a similar situation.

Personally I do not like the concept of detention centres - too much like prisons.

I would prefer to have them released into the community (particularly women and children) whilst awaiting processing. Why they may even be able to get jobs and the children could go to school and begin to learn about being Australian.

 

[Onwithit]

If these people for whatever reason take a skewed, calculated risk with there own children's lives, going through some desperate, stupid & dangerous voyage & then decide to queue jump, let it be on there own heads.
Australians cannot “Save the world” and all it’s evil’s.

We have our own groups of people here in Australia that we already throw our effort and money into & usually it’s a thankless task that is directed at those that hold Australian society in contempt.

So, I agree:
The answer is simple, put them on a plane & take them back from where they came, or they’ll just keep coming.

& a little message for

 

[Fudd]

They have the right to be treated like human beings rather than criminals. Processing does take time and it is understandable that they become frustrated. try to imagine yourself in a similar situation. Personally I do not like the concept of detention centres - too much like prisons.

......I agree but there have been examples of asylum seekers having been sent back as a result of enquiries revealing criminal backgrounds, terrorism links, forged/illegal documents etc. I don't like the notion of detention centres or somthing similar but asylum seekers need to be segregated from the rest of soceity until such time as their bona fides can be established otherwise you run the risk of some of these people "doing a runner".

I found the Dept of Immigration's claim interesting that 95% illegals arrive by plane, and slip through the cracks (by abusing the terms of their tourist visa), whilst only 5% arrive by boat.

Fudd

 

[billybones]

"maybe once they start earning a decent wage they could have to pay the government back for helping them." Quote from Billy Bones.

Sure, maybe they could, but they can't get decent paying jobs while they are locked up, which is maybe part of the reason for their expressed frustration.

So, could we not get them to help us by doing some voluntary work while they wait for thier application to be processed. Some of these people are quite educated and for those unskilled it could be as much as helping clean up or replant some of our beautiful country side.

 

[Alecia the Foxx]

So, could we not get them to help us by doing some voluntary work while they wait for thier application to be processed. Some of these people are quite educated and for those unskilled it could be as much as helping clean up or replant some of our beautiful country side.

Yeah, we could, but then .... there would be complaints that they were taking jobs off qualified Australians. I have seen it happen in other countries.

 

[fukmee]

There are numerous country towns in Australia which have offered to take asylum seekers in order to boost their population ( eg so they can get an additional school teacher) or to do work which others will not do. It is also correct that many of the asylum seekers are educated and have skills which could be useful in the country without taking jobs off Australians.

 

[antonov]

"Many had spent more than a year waiting for security clearance after their refugee applications had been accepted and where depressed and at breaking point."

Surely the point here is that these guys HAVE been accepted as legitimate refugees and are just waiting for security clearances - that in no way needs to take 12 months.

Also, being in detention must be worse than being in prison because at least in prison the prisoners have jobs to do (to help keep them occupied). My understanding is that the asylum seekers cannot do anything but WAIT. Just waiting half an hour for a bus drives me crazy. Imagine waiting a YEAR for a bus!!

 

[Alecia the Foxx]

I don't know if you guys have heard of the Ahmed Zaoui Case?

It was a case here in NZ of a guy who was a refugee and who couldn't go back to his own country because he faced the death penalty if he went back. It turned out that he was voted into power legitimately in opposition to the corrupt government of the time, and the corrupt government of the time didn't like it.

So, he was labelled by them a terrorist, or something similar (my memory isn't as great as it was) and so he had to flee. NZ retained him, because we don't believe that we can send a refugee back to a country where they would be killed.

The moral of the story - don't judge, you do not know another person's story, ever.

 

[silverback]

the whole things a joke there are country towns screaming for an influlx of people to do menial tasks that the young generqation wont because they have pissed off to the city. we are up in arms over 1800 people that have been through crap none of us have ever been unlucky enough to have to survive through. let em stay and work in country towns where the help is needed. cant believe elections are won on the fear and crap spread on what represents a pooftienth of a percentage of our population. - there rant finished and yes i was born here.

yall entitled to your opinion, it's a democracy, but there's shitloads more important stuff to sort out for this country than the issue of boat people.

 

[BigBlackCock]

I have to laugh about all the lies and exaggeration about asylum seekers peabrains in movements like "Fuck off, we're full" spread around.

There are about 20,000 overstayers/illegal immigrants in Australia who come in on tourist visas and then overstay and slip under the radar. A vast majority of them are white and from the UK but no one protests because they're white and/or difficult to spot.

Secondly, whether you like it or not, the ONE internationally accepted currency is still GOLD BARS. So if you're fleeing a country, you sell whatever you can and buy gold bars. This doesn't make you a rich refugee - it just makes you a prudent one.

 

[billybones]

Yes, there will always be complaints that they are taking our jobs but how often do you go for a country drive and find it littered.
At least we could get them to clean some of this since no one else is.
Let it be unpaid since the government is already paying for their food, internet, shelter and I believe they also have a fully equipped gym inside the centre. Some of the things they have even a struggling pesioner is unable to get.
With regard to comparing it to a prison, it may be similar but then when you compare it to what they say they face in their own country anything is better.
Once they have been accepted and put into our local community who then pays for thier upkeep??
We need to help the people that are already in the queue before helping those that try to jump it.

My views go to all detainees, not just those who come by boat. We need immigartion to work harder to find those that overstay as well regardless of race.

 

[Alecia the Foxx]

Well, Billy Bones, it sounds like you are determined to keep thinking the way you think. So, go for it. We have all given you our different perspectives, seems like a waste of time really.

 

[Farm Boy]

I have to laugh about all the lies and exaggeration about asylum seekers peabrains in movements like "Fuck off, we're full" spread around.

There are about 20,000 overstayers/illegal immigrants in Australia who come in on tourist visas and then overstay and slip under the radar. A vast majority of them are white and from the UK but no one protests because they're white and/or difficult to spot.

Secondly, whether you like it or not, the ONE internationally accepted currency is still GOLD BARS. So if you're fleeing a country, you sell whatever you can and buy gold bars. This doesn't make you a rich refugee - it just makes you a prudent one.

Just one little point Visas over stayers when caught have no chance they go back no questions asked.

People coming to Australia in boats are a mixture of REFUGEES and others who are attempting to immigrate with out a visa or more simply permission.
Sorting out the two is the problem also how many and who is the problem when it comes to refugees ,check UN statistics A few years ago 14 million, now?

 

[Happy2]

I found the Dept of Immigration's claim interesting that 95% illegals arrive by plane, and slip through the cracks (by abusing the terms of their tourist visa), whilst only 5% arrive by boat.

Fudd[/QUOTE]

Fudd as we all know figures by a Govt dept are made of rubber, so they
can be twisted. Both sides of parliament can see the same figures and give you multiple outcomes.
Because a new set of numbers (Dont know if was the same Dept) said
boat arrivals have now outweighed overstayers. And dont forget stay one day over and your in the stats.
But my neighbouring cocky has a husband and wife from Zimbabwe working
for him. Dont let them get started on boat people. They had to wait seven years to get to oz. With full documentation. And we all know what their home country was /is like,

 

[Onwithit]

Gwad! nothing anyone writes on this supposed “Talking Sex” forum is going to change anything, so how about we all try & not get upset..
I personally have some compassion towards these poor fukrs but realistically you or I where not the cause of their problem.
Can’t we just all get along and hope they don’t come here & breed like rabbits so that our taxes don’t end up paying to support the useless ones
& hope they don’t end up forming their own little communities to remind them of all the good times back home.
If they take some Aussie jobs then we can all do other things, like, stripping, prostitution, pole dancers or become cricket stars.
A good example is Shane Warne, he has nice hair...
Yhea right, AS IF! choke, choke...

 

[Alecia the Foxx]

I'm glad that you have compassion, Onwithit, that is a good thing.

In terms of you and I not being the cause of their problem - I as a white person of British descent am quite happy to put my hand up as to being partially to blame for the problems of a lot of the people of these third world countries. What a lot of people don't know, is that part of the African and Indian problems which persist even today can be attributed if not wholly, at least partially to my ancestors going over there with their sophisticated farming machinery, selling it to the native farmers, and then not being there to advise on how to fix it when it broke down. That, on its own, caused untold financial downturn in those countries.

So, I am not going to turn my head away and say, "It's nothing to do with me." And neither does NZ, and neither does Australia. ccasion14

 

[Farm Boy]

Alecia Much as I love you and respect your opinion and while aware of some of the evils caused by European colonialism you may have to rethink that sophisticated farming machinery thing
Adopting European farming methods + interfering with land ownership might have been more the issue.

 

[Alecia the Foxx]

Alecia Much as I love you and respect your opinion and while aware of some of the evils caused by European colonialism you may have to rethink that sophisticated farming machinery thing
Adopting European farming methods + interfering with land ownership might have been more the issue.

Definitely. Agree totally. ccasion14

 

[Happy2]

Hello Alecia As much as it pains me to do it I have to agree with farmboy.
Modern farming would have little to do with the plight of these people. Lppk
at some of the traditional farming methods such as slash and burn>
Our ancestors dis-enfranchised the people of their land giving them no land to farm and the freedom fighters who liberated many countries took the rest. Over simplistic I know
but modern farming systems could be a godsend for some countries if their governments
would help their people instead of their elite

 

[Alecia the Foxx]

Hey, thanks both you guys.

Who cares about the details, I did say our ancestors were only partially responsible.

At least there is some consensus that somewhere we have some responsibility. I also think that disenfranchisement was a problem too, if not more, so am glad you pointed it out. ccasion14

 

[norimus]

Wow.. what a good subject.. let me put it this way.. I am an immigrant.. I am the one that arrived at the airport, with a legal visa in my legal passport after paying around $4000 in overall fees and tickets.. I respect the law and the agencies enforcing them.. the rule is: refugee means you are a person which has the right to eat and drink water and sleep.. that't it.. and I TOTALLY AGREE ! we are not talking about people running accross the border from some situation.. we are looking at people planning trips, saving money or even better still stealing them, travelling for weeks to go around the globe because we have a much better and accepting system than others.. since the Afghan community is muslim why is it that they do not take shelter in Pakistan ? Why is it that Indonesia (their faith brothers) doesn't want them ? Why Australia ? I am the first one to say : GO BACK or put up with our system.. after all...we do.. we queue and take numbers and wait in silence for the number to be called.. this is us. this is our culture.. anybody else.. either accept it or get lost between the oceans.. I didn't come here to ask for stuff.. I know I have to work for it .. no 0% interest credits or handouts for this one.... so.. this guys.. (bizarre.. mainly guys not females.. strange ha ?) either accept it.. or turn around and stop using our children's future fund for your benefit..

P.S. And I'm not an ethnic "celebrating his culture".. I say.. you come here.. you're an Aussie or you're not.. My flag is the Aussie flag.. anybody wants anything different, then read the signs on the freeway "Wrong Way ! Go Back! "

 

[Happy2]

The boat people who are now causing trouble on Christmas island, are the same people who are going to live in their own little enclave when they get to Perth . And it is when they get to Perth not if. Except on very rare occasions.
If they became Aussies or whichever rich welfare country they get to And joined in like the majority of earlier and present day legal immigrants have and do. They would be more openly welcomed.
These boat people harden the heart of the general public to the genuine refugee and
immigrant

 

[billybones]

norimus, I must say I enjoyed your reply. Some of the replies seem to feel that I have made up my own mind and against these people arriving the way they have.

Well, I`m not,
as I tried to explain if they choose this way to try and immigrate then be patient and wait. After we have looked after those that asked for help first then we can try to help them.

 

[norimus]

billybones.. I don't want to sound fascist.. but i've had just about enough of do gooders and the bleading hearts using our country and our wealth to live a parallel life without integrating into our culture.. that was my point.. hoe I haven't upset anybody in the process after all.. freedom of speech is the basis of our society and our way of life..

As Sam Kekovic says : " Chop !" LOL

 

[Alecia the Foxx]

billybones.. I don't want to sound fascist.. but i've had just about enough of do gooders and the bleading hearts using our country and our wealth to live a parallel life without integrating into our culture.. that was my point.. hoe I haven't upset anybody in the process after all.. freedom of speech is the basis of our society and our way of life..

As Sam Kekovic says : " Chop !" LOL

Well, I hate to break it to you, but, you are sounding fascist.