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The time has come to ban marijuana!

B

BigBlackCock

I purposely made the title of the thread as such to attract attention to it. Hopefully people will be mature enough to see this. But I do have to say the following article in the West Australian does get me thinking. There is now increased evidence to show that many, many people who are into Weed graduate to harder drugs. Sure, some stay as marijuana users all their lives but there are side effects to that too - ranging from mental illness to violence and crime over time. What do you think - is it to be banned in the same way that ecstacy, ice, heroin are?

I realize that fines are indicative of a ban anyway but has the problem now grown so huge, it might need LOTS more fines and jail times. I wouldn't invoke the death penalty for pushers thought but something SEVERE to be imposed? What say you?

One in seven high on cannabis

CATHY O'LEARY MEDICAL EDITOR, The West Australian
July 27, 2011, 2:20 am Post Commenttweet0EmailPrint
The West Australian ©

WA is the country's cannabis capital, with one in seven teenagers and adults using the drug in the past 12 months, according to an extensive national survey.

Only days before the State is due to bring in tough new laws on possessing the drug, results from the 2010 National Drug Strategy Household Survey show WA's rate of cannabis use - 13.4 per cent - is 30 per cent higher than the national average. The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare report shows the overall use of illicit drugs in WA is the highest in the country after the Northern Territory, with almost one in five people over the age of 14 using them in the previous 12 months.

The survey found one in 50 Australians had recently used cocaine - 30 per cent higher than the rate three years ago - with women aged in their 20s recording one of the biggest increases.

The results come as West Australians face tougher penalties from next week for possessing cannabis.

Anyone caught with more than 10g of cannabis will face two years jail or a $2000 fine.

The laws will apply to people found with any cannabis plants, whereas previously the possession of two plants resulted only in an infringement notice and a fine of up to $200.

National Drug Research Institute senior researcher Steve Allsop said the survey results on cannabis were disappointing and showed that a range of measures, including education in schools, was needed.

He said cannabis use had reached a high in the late 1990s before falling, but had picked up again in the past few years.

"Historically WA has had higher rates of cannabis use, and we're not really sure why that is, and while we should be concerned about these latest results that has to be tempered with the fact that generally there has been a downward trend since the late 1990s," he said.

Professor Allsop said hefty fines for cannabis use were not the whole solution.

"We need an enduring campaign to highlight the risks associated with cannabis use because this survey also shows there has been a decrease in people's perception of the serious harm caused by drug," he said.

The AIHW report found smoking rates were falling but there was no decrease in risky drinking. There was strong support for government policies which reduced the harm from tobacco and alcohol.
 
W

WRXXXR

It is a complete and utter waste of time banning it BBC. I don't know if you understand how drug users work but they don't really care if something is illegal... It'll still be cheap and it'll still be easy to get.

As for jail time, thats just rubbish. It will simply encourage our already useless police to spend more time catching the minor crims in society.

What about all the Recreational users that don't affect others who can afford the gear and who understand that things kept to moderation might not be so bad. Do they deserve a $2000 fine or jail? I'd peg that there's a few people on this forum who may have smoked some weed, dropped an e or done some coke and they are normal people.

The junkie scum on the other hand need to follow in Amy winehouses footsteps..
 

Fudd

Full Member
Foundation Member
Points
5
...As for jail time, thats just rubbish. It will simply encourage our already useless police to spend more time catching the minor crims in society...

.....there is a positive side.....imagine the calibre of an AFL/NRL team it could produce....the downside would be that the team would probably only play home games.....lol :)
 

Miss Delights

Diamond Member
Points
0
I have been a recreational smoker of this for years & the truth is that it's shit! I have seen so many people who are completely hopeless because they can't function in their day to day lives with out it! & when they don't get it they are total psychos..It has way to many side affects & there should be harsher policies on this drug.. As I can't stand how it wrecks peoples lives & is classified as not that bad on the drug list..I think it is one of the worst.
 
B

BigBlackCock

Alecia, marijuana is technically banned as in it's illegal. But the governments past in the state have flirted with things ranging from allowing plants for personal use and erasing past records of criminal use after a certain time. Even now, the fines are relatively light.

As Dylan testifies and enough research has proven, it's the start of graduating to harder use for many people and with that comes the damage to society ranging from home invasions to wrecked family lives. If WRXR knows for certain from credible research that casual users can moderate their habit, I'm happy for him. Personally, I think Amy Winehouse was a victim.

I seriously wonder whether a stronger stand has to be taken against it. I certainly find it hypocritical that the agents who arrest people for it aren't stringently tested for drug use i.e. the cops. That's like saying police are allowed to arrest people for drink-driving but not required to undergo breathalyzer tests themselves.
 
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F

fdoto

There is definitely a problem with drugs, including marijuana, that needs to be solved. However, harsh punishment for small-scale usage or cultivation is just that: a punishment, not a solution. It shows a stunning lack of imagination. If someone doesn't do what you want when you hurt them, you're not hurting them hard enough! Prison is not a good place to be if someone is to avoid drugs.

Education is important but schools can only do so much. It must begin at home. Good parents are more effective than good teachers. However, people are trained for their role at work but not for the most important role in their life. We train teachers but not parents.
 

svengali

Foundation Member
Points
1
Possession and trafficking or marijuana is and always has been illegal in all of Australia but laws vary between states. Until the Barnett Governments recent amendments W.A. had the softest laws which allowed possession of less than 2 plants or a small amount of "weed" to be dealt with by a fine with no recorded criminal record. Note it was still illegal - just not heavily penalised.

Smoking "pot" used to be a relatively harmless practise among hippies, dropouts and young people looking for an illegal thrill back in the sixties. But the weed available then was comparatively mild stuff, containing only a fraction of the T.H.C. found in modern hydroponically grown plants.

Downside (isn't there always one) was that it carries more general health risks than smoking tobacco because of the lack of filters - you are still filling your lungs with foreign crap. Also, research has shown that the modern, stronger stuff does cause mental problems like schitzophrenia (is that spelt right?) in those susceptible to them. It also distorts perception of distance and time which is a worry if you are driving or operating heavy machinery. This is why minesites, and many construction businesses screen their workers for it and boot them off-site for a positive test.

In my humble opinion the only way to get on top of the illegal drug problem is to tackle the users. Criminals supply the stuff because of demand from the dumb kids willing to hand over money for a dodgy and potentially lethal "high".

Hit them hard with a mandatory 6 months detention in a drug rehab centre for a first offence with a clean slate and no criminal record afterwards as they do in Singapore. No excuses, no exemptions. Irregular drug tests for 2 years after release. Re-offend and you do your time in a real jail. You would only have to lock up a few for the idea to percolate that dabbling in drugs is not worth the risk.

It will never happen, of course - too much risk of a pollie's offspring getting caught - but it would work.
 
W

WRXXXR

Personally, I think Amy Winehouse was a victim.

Absolute rubbish. She had it all, money, good looks, lots of talent and she threw it away. Fuck man, she even sung about not wanting to go to rehab. She got what was coming so no tears from me. Same goes with that local smack addict who died after her transplants.

Dylan, I assume you function perfectly normal even though you've dabbled in dope for a while? What about you BBC, ever experimented?

I'm not saying that drugs are ok, just that there are many professional people who might have the occasional bucket to relax or drop a pill at a festival and function perfectly ok and don't become addicted. Hardly big time crims worthy of jail time.
 

vdubz

Bronze Member
Points
0
When did this board turn into such a right wing sound off??

I thought u ppl were liberal ;)

Adults are supposed to be able to make their own decisions right?? Many of the activities on this board are illegal in places. Doesn't make it wrong...

Lighten up ppl, or is that light it up and chill :)

BTW I'm a reformed smoker personally. Don't advocate it, but don't think its really comparable to our meth problems etc.

l8rz
 

svengali

Foundation Member
Points
1
...............

I'm not saying that drugs are ok, just that there are many professional people who might have the occasional bucket to relax or drop a pill at a festival and function perfectly ok and don't become addicted. Hardly big time crims worthy of jail time.

That is the problem in a nutshell.

One misguided individual "dropping a pill" does little harm. A million individuals dropping pills supports a network of criminal activity which, like it or not, affects us all.

Of those millions a significant percentage will go on to become addicts. Many more will steal or rob to support their habit.

If their drug-taking affected only themselves I would say "go for it knock yourself out any which-way you like" Snag is it ultimately affects the whole of society. That is why you stay away from dark alleys at night, lock your car and house doors and worry about your teenagers when they are out and about at night.

Be nice if we didn't have those worries, wouldn't it?
 
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A

Alecia the Foxx

When did this board turn into such a right wing sound off??

I thought u ppl were liberal ;)

Adults are supposed to be able to make their own decisions right?? Many of the activities on this board are illegal in places. Doesn't make it wrong...

Lighten up ppl, or is that light it up and chill :)

BTW I'm a reformed smoker personally. Don't advocate it, but don't think its really comparable to our meth problems etc.

l8rz

I tend to agree. I actually found that when I first came on here, it seemed like it was very right wing on here, but after persevering with the place there are many more liberal open minded people hiding here and posting occasionally, so don't be too despondent.

I agree with your comment about meth, (evil drug) but I don't hear anyone bringing up the negative effects of alcohol. I am not proposing we go back to the prohibition era, but the reality is that alcohol is a drug, and the drinking culture with young people, both here and in Australia is alarming, to say the least. I personally think these two problems should be addressed before considering marijuana. However, just my opinion.
 
J

jjohnson

The argument that marijuana is a gateway drug is spurious indeed. Most people begin their drug taking with alcohol before moving onto other drugs. Let's be honest, alcohol causes far more damage, both economically and socially, than marijuana.
 
B

BigBlackCock

Absolute rubbish. She had it all, money, good looks, lots of talent and she threw it away. Fuck man, she even sung about not wanting to go to rehab. She got what was coming so no tears from me.

Wow WRXR! Surely, just because a person has money or good looks or creative talent doesn't mean he or she can't become a victim or deserves to die before their time.

Ben Cousins was (is?) a victim as is that lady (her name was Claire Murray). They may have had ability to get rehab and they may well have - a song sung about it doesn't mean they deserve to die surely? Rehab doesn't mean success and that's why many medical practitioners would use the words "succesful rehabilitation" as opposed to just "rehabilitation". So Eric Clapton deserves to die for making a song about Cocaine? He has admitted in interviews that he was lucky enough to afford the treatment to kick the habit as has Pete Townsend. Not everyone is so lucky.

Victims are paying the price for drugs pushed at them, made available, received by them. I do think we need to jail the Mr. Bigs behind this.
 
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A

Alecia the Foxx

Wow WRXR! Surely, just because a person has money or good looks or creative talent doesn't mean he or she can't become a victim or deserves to die before their time.

Ben Cousins was (is?) a victim as is that lady (her name was Claire Murray). They may have had ability to get rehab and they may well have - a song sung about it doesn't mean they deserve to die surely? Rehab doesn't mean success and that's why many medical practitioners would use the words "succesful rehabilitation" as opposed to just "rehabilitation". So Eric Clapton deserves to die for making a song about Cocaine? He has admitted in interviews that he was lucky enough to afford the treatment to kick the habit as has Pete Townsend. Not everyone is so lucky.

Victims are paying the price for drugs pushed at them, made available, received by them. I do think we need to jail the Mr. Bigs behind this.

Yes, I agree. A bit harsh from WXXXR I thought.
 

bushseeker

Foundation Member
Points
0
can only talk from personal experience used dope for about 10 years regulary but proabally not heavily never wanted anything heavier and stopped smoking because I started getting bad thoughts mostly about dying

had maybe a total of 1 cone in the last 10 years

used properly its probablly bettert than alcohol and I dont consider it a hard drug on its own
 

bushseeker

Foundation Member
Points
0
Last i heard from the shooting gallery in Sydney they had saved over 3.000 overdoses in the last 12 months


im gonna cop flack but this shits me thats 3000 house breakers and petty theives that are coming after YOUR stuff to junk up their arm
call me heartless but I work hard for my stuff and my rights to have it remain in my posesion far outweigh some junkies craving
 

svengali

Foundation Member
Points
1
Just one partial reply to Happytimes post. A lot of people offer the argument that "alcohol does more harm than pot therefore pot should be legal" Sorry, but logically, that is an argument to ban or control alcohol, not to turn loose another menace to health and the rule of law.

I would not for one minute suggest more wowserish alcohol restrictions than we already suffer from but as regards illegal drugs (including pot) I am right behind the Government.

What we need (and it costs money dammit!!) is a proper, dedicated rehab setup similar to the Singapore system. Over there, if you are an addict and diagnosed as such by the authorities you go into a secure "hospital" which is part jail, part treatment facility. it is secured like a prison (armed guards and all) and no visitors are allowed. Treatment is administered by medical personel and includes a lot of physical exercise, some medication and a fair bit of tough love and anti-drug propaganda. On discharge there is a requirement for random blood/urine samples to guard against re-offending. I am not sure what happens if you re-offend but would guess it wouldn't be nearly as "pleasant" the second time around. Drug dealers, of course get a long drop and a short rope. Unpalatable to us I know but once again re-offending is minimised and society is protected which is what laws are supposed to do.

Certainly we can learn a lot from Singapore. In some ways their laws are quite draconian but at least you don't see louts brawling in the streets or graffiti scrawled on walls and you can wander around at night without worrying about being mugged.
 

Fudd

Full Member
Foundation Member
Points
5
im gonna cop flack but this shits me thats 3000 house breakers and petty theives that are coming after YOUR stuff to junk up their arm
call me heartless but I work hard for my stuff and my rights to have it remain in my posesion far outweigh some junkies craving

....your view is very understandable, however, the aim of a shooting gallery is to treat the addiction as an illness rather than the state sponsoring a druggie's habit.

When the concept of a shooting gallery was first introduced in Switzerland, there a number of positive (and measureable) outcomes that were identified:

1. the amount of drug related crime (much like what you allude to) fell substantially;
2. there was a drop in the number of addicts overdosing;
3. it help to minimise the transmission of AIDS & Hep B as users were'nt sharing needles etc;
4. treatment helped a number of addicts "get cleaned".

Shooting galleries were established in the UK, France, Germany, the USA and these results were also observed there.

At the end of the day, shooting galleries are just another strategy that soceity needs to look at as part of a wider approach at combating this disgusting habit.

Fudd :)
 
W

WRXXXR

Victims are paying the price for drugs pushed at them, made available, received by them. I do think we need to jail the Mr. Bigs behind this.

Thats the same argument as "they came from a broken home". Only you and no one else makes the choice whether to take drugs. I do agree, the big time dealers should be punished but very few will ever get caught.

Here we've got a user whose been smoking weed for 41 years to help relax and you think he deserves jail time? I don't know HT, but I'm sure he's just a relaxed mature age good bloke who's far from a victim or genuine criminal.

Some of my views on genuine junkies are pretty harsh but I'm all for giving them a chance. If they get clean great, if they don't and continue to get worse over the next 2+ years then I care not if they OD and die.
 
A

Alecia the Foxx

"Only you and no one else makes the choice whether to take drugs." Quote from WRXXXR.

That's a whole lot of bullshit.

One of my friends started drinking at the age of 3. Her father used to get her drunk in front of his friends as a party joke. And in terms of the movie stars - it turns out that they have drugs pushed onto them at an extremely early age, by their drivers, by their managers, by their friends, by their co-stars. It is seen as the way to cope with the problems and stress of being in that life style. And remember, often these people are stars because their parents pushed them way beyond normally accepted human limits, of ten for their own gratification. And then when they get addicted everyone acts so surprised, and says that they only have themselves to blame. Sorry if you take offence, WRXXXR, but I think that is an ignorant attitude.
 
W

WRXXXR

Fair enough in some situations the person has no choice but that's hardly normal. Generally people start drugs in high school / uni. At an age when they know what's right and what's wrong.
 
A

Alecia the Foxx

Yes, that is true too. You are not wrong.

However, bear in mind that recent medical, psychological and behavioral opinion seems to be pointing in the direction of the theory that teenagers are not normal anyway. Their brains don't function in terms of logic in the way our adult brains do. Remember back to when your mates opinions about absolutely everything mattered more than life itself, almost? And how taking risks and not thinking about consequences seemed really cool?

It's the people offering drugs to teenagers and youngsters who should be held more accountable.

Here endeth the lesson ...
 

Rochelle

Forum & Langtrees.com Administrator
Staff member
Legend Member
Points
183
I agree Alecia....I would say especially teenager are not in control of a healthy judgement of 'right' and 'wrong'........they feel bullet proof......want to be cool......are part of groups with lot's of peer pressure......it sometimes feels a bit like a good luck charm if you went through high school as a member of a group that didn't experiments with whatever is available.

Hi Alecia......just try to remember.......how long ago when all the herbal stuff came up in NZ? Herbal E, herbal speed etc? They tried to get people of the 'real' stuff by offering herbals. Hmmmmm needles to say that it backfired........especially young people overdosed on it big time.

And a word to marijuana........ I have never come across a stoned person who is aggressive, insulting, threatening or violent. I have come across an uncountable amount of drunk people who tick all the boxes.
I really think the focus should be more on our drinking culture than on marijuana.......but hmmmmm.......guess too much money is made with booze (government loves it) and non with marijuana.........hehehe maybe the government should legalise marijuana too and put a tax on it.........

R.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 

vdubz

Bronze Member
Points
0
And a word to marijuana........ I have never come across a stoned person who is aggressive, insulting, threatening or violent. I have come across an uncountable amount of drunk people who tick all the boxes.
I really think the focus should be more on our drinking culture than on marijuana.......but hmmmmm.......guess too much money is made with booze (government loves it) and non with marijuana.........hehehe maybe the government should legalise marijuana too and put a tax on it.........

R.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Yeah, haven't heard off to many fights resulting in deaths from stoners :)

Yrs, as per all drugs there are negatives, but lets be real. Tobacco and alcohol are our most dangerous drug.

Ban booze, good luck. This is why I think weed isn't a major concern personally.
 
W

WRXXXR

You will find that most desperado's and rip offs these days are more on Crystal Meth than anything else

I experienced this first hand today.. I won't go in to details as many people will get offended with some of my views and the fact thr police are involved (but no doubt it'll go nowhere...) as it's a fairly serious offense but the short story is i was basically attacked with a knife by some lowlife prick who went from calmish to instant meth rage.

We need to forget weed and bring in some genuinely tough laws against scum in the community.
 
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W

WRXXXR

These two drop kicks probably did start off with dope and alcohol at a very young age but drugs probably aren't the only reason they are driving around in a stolen car, breaking and entering and assaulting people with weapons...
 
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